A request to all MD's / Club Reps.

[humbled.ag]

This thread is being cross posted from Airgun Warriors. I take no credit for this content. The original author is Hector Medina. He's a long time competitor and respected voice in the field target community.

"
Back in 2009, the rule in the handbook for the visibility of the targets was very clear.
It included a very measurable goal:


"Targets will be visible from a point 15" high above ground for non-designated targets" (that meant the "free position" targets of today).


But somewhere between 2011 and 2012 this rule quietly disappeared.


The current rules under Common Division Rules, Targets; read:


G. Hit Zone must be clearly visible from any shooting position, or from the designated position on
Forced Position shots.
H. Any obstruction (grass, tree limb, etc.) shall be related to the Chief Marshal and removed prior to
the first competitor shooting a lane. If an obstruction occurs by some natural condition during the
match and only affects a limited number of shooters, the Match Director, at his/her discretion may
remove the obstruction and allow the affected shooters reshoot the target. Otherwise, the
obstruction must remain for the duration of the competition unless it creates a hazardous
condition, such as a potential for ricochet.


So, when some shooters, mostly WFTF get to a lane where the target is simply not visible from the bumbag.


There is a twofold problem:


1.- The "ANY" is not defined, so there is no measureble way of telling whether that particular target in that lane, is legal or not.


AND


2.- Some Marshalls, even Chief Marshalls, think that the rules say what THEY think they say and not what they really say, and I quote hearing:


"Once the match has started you cannot change ANYTHING in the course" (verbal emphasis from the speaker).


Now, that is not what the rule says, the rule very specifically says that it is up to the discretion of the Match Director. BUT the rule establishes that the Match Director may remove the obstruction. SO... in the case of the terrain itself being the obstruction what is the MD to do?


Dig a trench? NO WAY!


It also leaves to shooters that shoot from elevated positions to define IF there is an obstruction or not, Hunter Division shooters typically shoot from a position that is 26" to 32" high; Open Division shooters , with the harness are typically 20" to 26" above ground. Since between these two Divisions, we have over 50% of the attendance at most shoots, it is not logical to ask them to look for things they are not concerned with.


Given the above the ask is simple from all of you:


Please send a note to the AAFTA BoG requesting the text of sections G & H to change to:


G. Hit Zone must be clearly visible from a point 15" above ground, or from the designated position on
Forced Position shots.
H. Any obstruction (grass, tree limb, etc.) shall be related to the Chief Marshal and removed prior to
the first competitor shooting a lane. If an obstruction occurs by some natural condition during the
match and only affects a limited number of shooters, the Match Director, at his/her discretion may
remove the obstruction OR elevate the target using a block or other means, without changing the distance to the target, and allow the affected shooters re shoot the target. Otherwise, the obstruction must remain for the duration of the competition unless it creates a hazardous
condition, such as a potential for ricochet.


It's not about me being short (my pants are 33" inseam and my belt is at 36" height). It's about where the sport in the world is going with more and more shooters opting for the "Deadman's" or "SouthAfrican" position, and it is about keeping all the Divisions under one "roof".


Thanks for your consideration and understanding."

Back to me. I was discussing this with my co-MD and we were concerned with the word ANY, as it suggests the target needing to be visible from 1 position, versus all positions. If you replace the word ANY, with EVERY, the 15" rule would be a given, and defined as the optimal height.

Have at it!

 

[cavedweller]

This thread is being cross posted from Airgun Warriors. I take no credit for this content. The original author is Hector Medina. He's a long time competitor and respected voice in the field target community.

"
Back in 2009, the rule in the handbook for the visibility of the targets was very clear.
It included a very measurable goal:


"Targets will be visible from a point 15" high above ground for non-designated targets" (that meant the "free position" targets of today).


But somewhere between 2011 and 2012 this rule quietly disappeared.


The current rules under Common Division Rules, Targets; read:


G. Hit Zone must be clearly visible from any shooting position, or from the designated position on
Forced Position shots.
H. Any obstruction (grass, tree limb, etc.) shall be related to the Chief Marshal and removed prior to
the first competitor shooting a lane. If an obstruction occurs by some natural condition during the
match and only affects a limited number of shooters, the Match Director, at his/her discretion may
remove the obstruction and allow the affected shooters reshoot the target. Otherwise, the
obstruction must remain for the duration of the competition unless it creates a hazardous
condition, such as a potential for ricochet.


So, when some shooters, mostly WFTF get to a lane where the target is simply not visible from the bumbag.


There is a twofold problem:


1.- The "ANY" is not defined, so there is no measureble way of telling whether that particular target in that lane, is legal or not.


AND


2.- Some Marshalls, even Chief Marshalls, think that the rules say what THEY think they say and not what they really say, and I quote hearing:


"Once the match has started you cannot change ANYTHING in the course" (verbal emphasis from the speaker).


Now, that is not what the rule says, the rule very specifically says that it is up to the discretion of the Match Director. BUT the rule establishes that the Match Director may remove the obstruction. SO... in the case of the terrain itself being the obstruction what is the MD to do?


Dig a trench? NO WAY!


It also leaves to shooters that shoot from elevated positions to define IF there is an obstruction or not, Hunter Division shooters typically shoot from a position that is 26" to 32" high; Open Division shooters , with the harness are typically 20" to 26" above ground. Since between these two Divisions, we have over 50% of the attendance at most shoots, it is not logical to ask them to look for things they are not concerned with.


Given the above the ask is simple from all of you:


Please send a note to the AAFTA BoG requesting the text of sections G & H to change to:


G. Hit Zone must be clearly visible from a point 15" above ground, or from the designated position on
Forced Position shots.
H. Any obstruction (grass, tree limb, etc.) shall be related to the Chief Marshal and removed prior to
the first competitor shooting a lane. If an obstruction occurs by some natural condition during the
match and only affects a limited number of shooters, the Match Director, at his/her discretion may
remove the obstruction OR elevate the target using a block or other means, without changing the distance to the target, and allow the affected shooters re shoot the target. Otherwise, the obstruction must remain for the duration of the competition unless it creates a hazardous
condition, such as a potential for ricochet.


It's not about me being short (my pants are 33" inseam and my belt is at 36" height). It's about where the sport in the world is going with more and more shooters opting for the "Deadman's" or "SouthAfrican" position, and it is about keeping all the Divisions under one "roof".


Thanks for your consideration and understanding."

Back to me. I was discussing this with my co-MD and we were concerned with the word ANY, as it suggests the target needing to be visible from 1 position, versus all positions. If you replace the word ANY, with EVERY, the 15" rule would be a given, and defined as the optimal height.

Have at it!

I would like to ADD one other thing... a target to be visible, should be visible in all lighting conditions that may occur on a course throughout the day; especially when said targets are painted black, dark brown, dark blue etc...
Example is a target placed in a tunnel with morning light,,,, may NOT be visible... except the chrome clamps.... in the afternoon shadows. This essentially renders the KZ invisible. thanks

 

[Motorhead]

As a MD,
I've always personally felt so long as there is a miens to get a clear view and shot within the shooters box it is fair for all. This does NOT necessarily mien a clear view from all possible positions one might be able to utilize within said box.
Grass or debris at ground level obstructing a Low to ground shooters view is the same as obstructions from trees, overhangs of various landscape features etc that may force a seated on a bucket/seat to get lower to clean up there view & path to target.

ADAPTING to whats required to gain visual & trajectory clearance should be part of the game IMO. If one looks at the most awesome game played in similar miens .... 3D Archery, Yes one must at times get out of there comfort zone to make there most likely to hit POA shot !!

Now many may not want this, having easy for everyone no matter how seated, there physical constraints, etc etc. Just as the "I can't see" or range well at 16X wanting more scope power, Or I can't hit what I'm shooting at & wanting more power.
The game should be hard, should be challenging, should require competitors to practice more than one way to sit or hold there Air gun to be competitive in a every changing landscape lane to lane or event to event .... Slam dunk easy is kinda boring.

Personally feel having an events MD and all they deal with at the locations they have to work with dictates NOT having such a hard and fast rule of Visible Access everywhere within the shooters box. This variety of event locations to location keeps it interesting and far more challenging to master the game as the "Game" needs to keep happy many sub class's on the same field of play.

Some times Too Many Rules actually create too much work and Anal attention required in Compliance & Enforcement taking away the fun or challenge of any said event.

Off my soapbox ... Just some personal insight

 

[AirNGasman]

Field Target is an inexact science. Correction- not a science at all, field target is an inexact shooting game.

I have great respect for any and all FT match directors, and was very happy to see Hector at the recent RoT Championships; it having been about a decade since I'd seen and visited with him. He is indeed a very thoughtful and FT-experienced individual and MD.

The aforementioned facts established, I agree in principle that all kill-zones in every match should be visible from any and all possible shooting positions applicable to every given lane, all match long, under any and all possible lighting conditions imaginable. Too bad that's humanly impossible.

So we MDs do the best we can to avoid all imaginable issues, then suffer our mistakes and shortcomings as gladly as possible while physically and mentally recovering in the days following every match we often struggle to bring y'all.

You're Welcome,
Ron

.

 

[Garrettkq]

As a MD,
I've always personally felt so long as there is a miens to get a clear view and shot within the shooters box it is fair for all. This does NOT necessarily mien a clear view from all possible positions one might be able to utilize within said box.
Grass or debris at ground level obstructing a Low to ground shooters view is the same as obstructions from trees, overhangs of various landscape features etc that may force a seated on a bucket/seat to get lower to clean up there view & path to target.

ADAPTING to whats required to gain visual & trajectory clearance should be part of the game IMO. If one looks at the most awesome game played in similar miens .... 3D Archery, Yes one must at times get out of there comfort zone to make there most likely to hit POA shot !!

Now many may not want this, having easy for everyone no matter how seated, there physical constraints, etc etc. Just as the "I can't see" or range well at 16X wanting more scope power, Or I can't hit what I'm shooting at & wanting more power.
The game should be hard, should be challenging, should require competitors to practice more than one way to sit or hold there Air gun to be competitive in a every changing landscape lane to lane or event to event .... Slam dunk easy is kinda boring.

Personally feel having an events MD and all they deal with at the locations they have to work with dictates NOT having such a hard and fast rule of Visible Access everywhere within the shooters box. This variety of event locations to location keeps it interesting and far more challenging to master the game as the "Game" needs to keep happy many sub class's on the same field of play.

Some times Too Many Rules actually create too much work and Anal attention required in Compliance & Enforcement taking away the fun or challenge of any said event.

Off my soapbox ... Just some personal insight

This overall thread resonates hard with me. And anybody who shoots near the ground..
There are some who say you should adapt to the conditions that are existing, until it forces another to get out of their normal position of shooting. I guarantee that one wouldn’t say “well you have to adapt” if the conditions require everybody to lay prone. Or shoot inches off the ground. Imagine if we had to get some Hunter shooters to sit on the ground. We know how all that would turn out, so it goes both ways.
There is a few things that are more irresponsible as a course that is set up without a clear path to the target. Yes, that’s a very harsh comment, however, it’s the truth and those are purely preventable situations.
I’m laughing, because I’m recalling a match where I had one extra positional lane, and the competitors nearly lost their poop.
All the matches that I set up, I go through great lengths to ensure a clear path above 15 inches. Earlier I made that post about the laser, and that is an incredibly valuable tool. I will certainly agree that it makes it extremely exhausting to get on your knees and visualize a clear path for 12 to 30 lanes up to 15 inches without strings.
I look at it like this, that if somebody is willing to pay a tremendous amount of money, and travel long distances, and take time off of work to attend an event that I’m putting on, I will do my damnedest to ensure a quality venue and make sure things are easily visible.

 

[Motorhead]

Clearing paths threw Cactus, low chaparral etc ... out in the Arizona desert is a far cry from those events and the crew/s that clear lanes whom shoot wood courses, in hilly / lumpy terrain. threw the brush, trees etc.

Yes Garrett you and your vast crew of helpers do a bang up job at doing what you state ... kudo's

 

[Kdog]

This overall thread resonates hard with me. And anybody who shoots near the ground..
There are some who say you should adapt to the conditions that are existing, until it forces another to get out of their normal position of shooting. I guarantee that one wouldn’t say “well you have to adapt” if the conditions require everybody to lay prone. Or shoot inches off the ground. Imagine if we had to get some Hunter shooters to sit on the ground. We know how all that would turn out, so it goes both ways.
There is a few things that are more irresponsible as a course that is set up without a clear path to the target. Yes, that’s a very harsh comment, however, it’s the truth and those are purely preventable situations.
I’m laughing, because I’m recalling a match where I had one extra positional lane, and the competitors nearly lost their poop.
All the matches that I set up, I go through great lengths to ensure a clear path above 15 inches. Earlier I made that post about the laser, and that is an incredibly valuable tool. I will certainly agree that it makes it extremely exhausting to get on your knees and visualize a clear path for 12 to 30 lanes up to 15 inches without strings.
I look at it like this, that if somebody is willing to pay a tremendous amount of money, and travel long distances, and take time off of work to attend an event that I’m putting on, I will do my damnedest to ensure a quality venue and make sure things are easily visible.

Garrett amen to your statement brother...too bad we can't get all match directors to understand the importance of getting down where people on a bumbag shoot. It's a totally different perspective, and only fair if we have a clear shot to a target. Sadly some match directors don't care enough to take the time to do things the right way, even after telling them their shortcummings when setting up a lane for people on a bumbag. It's simply not worth going back to a place where they don't care or have enough pride to do it right. I will find other places to shoot when I run into these problems and my issues are not resolved. Simply not worth the frustration when I'm traveling a great distance to have these problems. I've also ran into problems where my legs are sitting inside a bush with leaves directly in my face where I had to sit in order to get a clear shot at a target. Of course Hunter shooters did not have the same problem on the same lane. The match director of course did not account for how a bum bag shooter had to sit. Frustrating to say the least.