FX A question for FX experts about the tungsten hammer in M3

[Maizen]

So what regulator pressure should I be at for the tungsten hammer? Would it be unnecessary to use if I want to shoot 27-28 grain slugs at 1050? I also happen to have some extra hammer weights; one is for a .25 caliber and the other a .30 caliber. They are lighter than the tungsten hammer. Should use those instead for better harmonics?

I am currently at 122 bar on my reg…but the rifle seems a little jumpy for 122 bar...I believe that tungsten hammer is smacking the valve way too hard. Thoughts? Where would I need to be on my reg for the rifle to stop being jumpy?

To reiterate, I want good harmonics to shoot 27-28 grain slugs. Let me know and thanks.

 

[wooferocau]

Certainly NOT an expert... but..
I am using the Tungsten hammer in my M3 22cal.

ist reg @ 180
2nd reg @ 145
MICRO @ 5
MACRO @ 3 ish
Front Valve #line 4
27.5gr NSA @ 1030fps..

Shoots less than 1/2 moa at 150yds..

 

[Maizen]

Certainly NOT an expert... but..
I am using the Tungsten hammer in my M3 22cal.

ist reg @ 180
2nd reg @ 145
MICRO @ 5
MACRO @ 3 ish
Front Valve #line 4
27.5gr NSA @ 1030fps..

Shoots less than 1/2 moa at 150yds..

Thank you. What I want to know now is…is it possible to reach that same velocity without the tungsten hammer and at what bar on the second reg? This is for anyone else who wants to chime in.

By the way, does your rifle seem jumpy when shooting? Did you try shooting at your current setting with and without the tungsten hammer to see if it made a difference?

 

[qball]

Factory 7 gram hammer weight = 150 bars or lower

tungsten 14 gram hammer weight = 155-180 bars

When using tungsten hammer weight I don’t go below 160 bars, think of using 3lb hammer on a finishing nail. At 150 bars and lower you will not have great results with tungsten hummer, use appropriate small/factory hammer weight.

 

[wooferocau]

You can certainly achieve 900fps + with the 27.5 slug using the stock config , but pretty much everything is maxed, particularly the hammer. I found accuracy to be very ordinary, circa 1 to 1.5 moa!!

The Tungsten hammer allowed me to use a higher reg pressure with a harder/shorter hammer strike. Accuracy is much much better.......as stated..... 1/2 moa or less at 100yds plus.

 

[HogKiller]

Thank you. What I want to know now is…is it possible to reach that same velocity without the tungsten hammer and at what bar on the second reg? This is for anyone else who wants to chime in.

By the way, does your rifle seem jumpy when shooting? Did you try shooting at your current setting with and without the tungsten hammer to see if it made a difference?

One word, YES, you are over doing it by a ton, figuratively.

.25. VP. #2 125 bar 4/8/23
Stock weight and spring
Hammer Macro 21.44/.8445” <----this is extreme, be careful.
RMR SLUGS. #5. 944 fps
JSB. 25.39. #3. 912
JSB 33.95. # 7. 886 fps. 59 ft .25. VP.

Pellet port and PERHAPS a Slug Probe, not a pin probe. I've been messing with two different guns and my notes are, on a good day, incomplete. Do not expect a 1.0 SD it'll be good enough to be better than one minute of squirrel at 100 yard consistantly. Tomorrow I'll double check all of the numbers but I know my tune works fine, to the point of being boring and LOTS of pellets down range, well over 60....I lose count after 4 mags. Part of that is because I have a large tank and a compressor.

Definitely 125 bar, Definitely Slug Probe, Definitely Pellet transfer port, only thing left is the HSA...stay tuned, no pun intended.

 

[7Green]

Another option is to change the factory hammer spring out for a Huma power spring. With that and a tungsten hammer, I can open the valve at 190 bar easily. Idk if a 25 cal needs that though as I shoot a 35 cal. I would imagine it with the factory hammer would still open higher than 150 bar.

 

[Mrshosted]

Factory 7 gram hammer weight = 150 bars or lower

tungsten 14 gram hammer weight = 155-180 bars

When using tungsten hammer weight I don’t go below 160 bars, think of using 3lb hammer on a finishing nail. At 150 bars and lower you will not have great results with tungsten hummer, use appropriate small/factory hammer weight.

This is great advice, AGN could pin this at the top of the forum and save anybody new to tuning a FX a bunch of time, money and frustration.
Qball, thank you!!!

 

[Maizen]

Factory 7 gram hammer weight = 150 bars or lower

tungsten 14 gram hammer weight = 155-180 bars

When using tungsten hammer weight I don’t go below 160 bars, think of using 3lb hammer on a finishing nail. At 150 bars and lower you will not have great results with tungsten hummer, use appropriate small/factory hammer weight.

What if you use very little hammer spring? Physics says velocity is displacement or how far an object moves, divided by time. If you make the hammer spring less, the time for it to travel will be longer. Thus since the denominator is getting larger, then the velocity will be slower.

Basically what I’m saying is…go to 135 bar, and use a lower hammer spring setting with the tungsten hammer. It would be like using a heavier pellet and shooting it at 600 fps. Versus shooting a lighter one at 800 FPS. Same energy output, one is just heavier.

This way I can keep the tungsten hammer, and then go up in power if need be.

Would it not be the same concept?

 

[wooferocau]

What if you use very little hammer spring? Physics says velocity is displacement or how far an object moves, divided by time. If you make the hammer spring less, the time for it to travel will be longer.

Exactly.....

I found accuracy MUCH MUCH better by using harder/shorter hammer strike at a higher reg pressure than a slower/longer hammer strike with lower reg pressure..

 

[Maizen]

Exactly.....

I found accuracy MUCH MUCH better by using harder/shorter hammer strike at a higher reg pressure than a slower/longer hammer strike with lower reg pressure..

View attachment 376954

What headsize are you using? Also what liner?

 

[MongooseV8]

Factory 7 gram hammer weight = 150 bars or lower

tungsten 14 gram hammer weight = 155-180 bars

When using tungsten hammer weight I don’t go below 160 bars, think of using 3lb hammer on a finishing nail. At 150 bars and lower you will not have great results with tungsten hummer, use appropriate small/factory hammer weight.

This was exactly my experience. The tungsten hammer is really only for a higher pressure than the factory regs can allow. Huma makes weights that are a little heavier than factory, and also makes a heavier hammer spring. I think these are a nice in between for moderate reg pressures. I have the spring and "lighter" heavier weight in my Impact. Im getting ~1000fps in 25cal using 34.9grain Neilsens at 150Bar, with more hammer preload to go up if I wanted.

If you try to use the heavy tungsten hammer weight with lower reg pressures, you can max out your hammer system. We had two Impacts that would not lower velocity at any setting due to the hammer system being over powered.

 

[wooferocau]

.218" ....original STX liner

 

[qball]

What if you use very little hammer spring? Physics says velocity is displacement or how far an object moves, divided by time. If you make the hammer spring less, the time for it to travel will be longer. Thus since the denominator is getting larger, then the velocity will be slower.

Basically what I’m saying is…go to 135 bar, and use a lower hammer spring setting with the tungsten hammer. It would be like using a heavier pellet and shooting it at 600 fps. Versus shooting a lighter one at 800 FPS. Same energy output, one is just heavier.

This way I can keep the tungsten hammer, and then go up in power if need be.

Would it not be the same concept?

It could work but why not just keep reg at 160 with tungsten hammer and reduce the hammer all the way down? You have a M3 so easy to further reduce hammer spring settings. Reg settings are not repeatable but hammer spring settings are repeatable. Believe it or not you can achieve Lower power easier with higher reg pressure, my crown shoots 11.5 FPE and reg is at 145 bars.

 

[Maizen]

It could work but why not just keep reg at 160 with tungsten hammer and reduce the hammer all the way down? You have a M3 so easy to further reduce hammer spring settings. Reg settings are not repeatable but hammer spring settings are repeatable. Believe it or not you can achieve Lower power easier with higher reg pressure, my crown shoots 11.5 FPE and reg is at 145 bars.

I have thought of it…only thing that bothers me is shot count. That’s why I try to use the lower regs.

 

[qball]

I have thought of it…only thing that bothers me is shot count. That’s why I try to use the lower regs.

Try it first, you will surprised. Also would you rather have a bunch of bad shots or fewer good shots?

 

[Mike Kunte]

I have thought of it…only thing that bothers me is shot count. That’s why I try to use the lower regs.

I had the same worries about using higher pressures, shorter valve opening. I received this advice from a friend:

"Rather use higher pressure with less hammer, uses less air, a quick high pressure burst versus a longer lower pressure burst is more economic on air."

I have found this to be true on my Maverick, but I think the principle is applicable to other platforms also.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[cosmic]

it will explain it..

 

[markovic79]

Any chance shooting pellets in .25 with a tungsten hammer and 140 bar on 1 power wheel??? 700 mm barrel.

 

[Airgunmann]

You might be surprised as far as shot count goes a shorter burst of higher pressure seems like the impacts do better that way instead of the lower reg setting where the dwell is longer or valve stays open longer