A pigeon at 100yards is similar to a deer at how many yards? A moose?

[BlackbirdPS]

Hello Everyone,

I have a few hunter friends that think I'm loopy because i get excited about hitting targets at 100yards with my .22 and .25. Then I get an earful of their long shots of 200, 300 yards etc.

So how to calculate equivalents of target and distance with different size targets? A pigeon at 100yards is similar to a deer at how many yards? A moose?

Take care,
K

 

[Ramming]

pigeon multiplied by 10 might be the size of a deer; so 1000 yds is my guess and that would be a darned good shot btw.

 

[L.Leon]

Those hunter friends don’t have the proper context. You are shooting very light projectiles, highly susceptible to wind. Unless they are airgun hunters/pesters themselves. Let them be. Good shooting on your part though.

 

[Glem.Chally]

Good question!

 

[delooper]

A pigeon is about 30cm tall.

A deer is about 100cm tall.

Of course, numbers will vary depending on particular species, individuals, etc.

So if you want comparables to be the rough MOA of the shot (not taking into account what in particular you're aiming for on the target), it's a little more than 3 times harder to hit a pigeon than a deer. So 100 yard pigeon is like a 300-350yard shot for deer.

If rather than using length you use weight as a comparison, you'd be using the cube root of the ratio of weights. For similar-density objects that usually would give you the same comparable. The thing is, birds are far less dense (i.e. larger for their mass) than deer, so this comparison would make pigeon hunting seem harder than it is. With this comparable, you have deer in the 110kg range, and pigeon in the 0.338kg range, the cube root of (110/0.338) is about 6.87, i.e. this is like saying a 100 yard pigeon shot is a 687-yard deer shot. Presumably the above length comparison is better.

 

[Jasonmc]

Who cares what they think...no need in arguing with the clueless.. (Although that is a good question)... One of these math wizards will probably give you a detailed answer shortly... And yeah... A 100 yard pigeon is a good shot!!

 

[FarmPlinker]

Ask your friends if they use a .17 centerfire on those 300 yard shots. When they say no, explain that's the equivalent of what you're doing.

 

[Bigragu]

Just use kill zone size and ratio it out -

2” diameter kill zone for pigeon at 100 yards is equal to a 8” pie plate diam kill zone of a deer at 400 yards.

But as mentioned earlier that has to be considered- is pellet weight and the skill of making the hit in the wind conditions.

 

[Richmeister]

just realize you're a better shot and let them dream

 

[Mr.H]

I have some rifles that can shoot sub MOA targets at a variety of yardages. I was stretching my 13" Compact Vet out this last fall at 85 yards and I had three shots in one hole. Personally, that's good shooting, I impressed my self, and that's hard for me to do

 

[maxtrouble]

Hitting a pigeon at a 100 yards is quite the shot. Take a few of your hunter friends to the range and let them shoot at a 100 yards. Let them see how easy it is to calculate windage and holdover on the fly with a subsonic projectile.

 

[UCChris]

Like others have said, a 2" pigeon vitals at 100 yards is 2 MOA. Let's say deer vitals are 8", that would be 2MOA at 400 yards. That's nothing to turn yer nose up at.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

That's funny I give people crap when they show me there 300 yards rifle groups with a 308 and all the holes aren't just one big hole! They say, well I hit the 8 inch steel so it would be a kill shot on a deer.

Get back to me when you can deliberately place a 177 or 22 pellet into the eye of a squirrel 75 yards out REPEATEDLY.

Airguns are my most accurate rifles I own, even my match grade ammo shooters.

 

[Triggers and 4X4s]

Just show him this and say a physicist did a very simplistic calculation especially for him to comprehend:

Velocity / Mass = Momentum (Linear)
Momentum indexed with target

Airgun and Pigeon

Velocity = 950fps
Mass = 25Gr
Distance 100y
Target size (Kill Zone) = 1” sq

950 X 25 = 23750
23750 / 100 = 237.50
237.5 X 1 = 237.50 Index



Centre Fire Rifle and Deer

Velocity = 2500fps
Mass = 120Gr
Distance = 400y
Target Size (Kill Zone) = 20” sq

2500 X 120 = 300 000
300 000 / 400 = 750
750 X 20 = 15000 Index

Comparison (Indexed)
15000 / 237.50 = 63.15 Times more difficult to hit a Pigeon at 100yards than a deer at 400yards.

 

[MileHighAirGunner]

We all know scoring on pigeons in the KZ from the opposing end zone with an air gun is good shooting. so keep it up.
As for the OPs friends, there were a lot of assumptions thrown out there but the OP didn’t share any details about what his friends are shooting so we don’t know what we’re comparing to. Could be what ever they are shooting at 300 could be equally or even more impressive. We don’t know what we’re comparing to and obviously neither do the OPs friends.
The above formula is an interesting spin but again it’s based on the assumption that the OPs friends are shooting deer KZ sized targets. If they’re shootings MOA or ground squirrel KZ size targets with their .223s at 300 I don’t think it’d be anything to turn your nose up to

 

[Chukar60]

Just hand them your air gun and let them try shooting it at 100 yards. You may gain a shooting buddy.
Arguing about air gun vs powder burner is a waste of your time.

 

[drpietrzak]

It is a kill zone and ballistics review. Look at the kill zone for each quarry. Then use the ballistics charts to look at drop and wind drift. 5 mph 90° wind. When drop and/or drift exceed kill zone the shooter becomes the most important even if the rifle is perfect (none are). Add the group size each ammo/rifle is capable of at that range and it layers on the added luck factor.

 

[drpietrzak]

So using my TX200 as an example. Sighted in at 50 yards. Average group .75" (.40 to 1.0 common range). Kill zone is a head shot 1". So for drop... under 40 or over 60 requires shooter skill.



With a 5 mph wind... anything over 35 yards is shooter skill.

As 1" is about the group size at 50 yards... a good deal of luck plays a role anything over 50 yards.

 

[KatoKevin454]

Hand them the gun and tell them, "Ok, you hit it" and see what happens.....

 

[Bill_D]

Hand them the gun and tell them, "Ok, you hit it" and see what happens.....

EXACTLY what I was thinking