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A little thought experiment on classes (good vibes only)

First, this is just some random navel gazing. I am not advocating for any kind of change to the current rules or class structure in AAFTA. Please don't come in here with a bunch of feelings. This is fun time, not grumpy time.

Having said that, as I was driving back from a job today, I got to thinking: If I was going to re-invent field target today, what would that look like?

I think the rules about course setting and targets is pretty good, so I'll focus on the classes.

First we would have Open class.
Open class allows a maximum of 20fpe.
Any scope is allowed.
Any shooting aids allowed in the current AAFTA rules are allowed (sticks, high seat, bum bag, jacket, glove, knee pads, hamster, harness, butt hook, etc).
Shooting aids would be allowed for forced position lanes. (This basically means you can use sticks for kneeling and standing).
No range finders. (Rangefinding is the soul of FT. Wind reading is the devil of FT.)
So essentially, current open class rules with the addition of high seats and sticks, sticks allowed for any lane.

Next we have WFTF. This would mirror the international WFTF rules as it does currently.

That's it. I thought about having a third class that would be called "Limited" which would be essentially the current hunter class gun and scope restrictions, with the thinking that it would be a beginner/traditionalist class. But then I got to thinking, why? I really doubt very many people would choose to shoot 16x with no clicking if they were given the option not to. If you want to limit yourself to 16x and not click, there's nothing stopping you from doing that in Open class.

Here is my thought process. This would allow people currently shooting Open class to keep doing what they like. This would leave WFTF alone. So the main impact would be allowing the current Hunter class to go ahead and use the whole scope. If you look at the guns and scopes used this year for Hunter class and Open class, they are pretty much all the same. If we are all using the same equipment, why not go ahead and put everyone in the same class. I personally would love to see someone use a harness, jacket, glove, sticks and butt hook at the same time. That would be fun (ny).

Like I said, I'm not trying to "fix" anything, I'm just pondering how I would do things if I could wave a magic wand and make field target the way that I think would maximize the fun and still be competitive for most people. This is mostly based on how I like to shoot and how most people in my area like to shoot.

So now tell me what your "ideal world" field target would look like. Then maybe we'll all have a better understanding of what people like and don't like in different parts of the country. And remember, let's keep it kumbaya. This isn't an "airing of the grievances" post, its "here's how I would do it".
 
I like it. Mostly.

Putting everybody (that's somewhere between 12 and 20fpe) in the same class would be great.

Matches would have far fewer "winners." Ie match high would be the winner, as it should be. From past discussions of similar topics, some of the regulars aren't going to like that they don't get to go home and say they won (while quietly mumbling "my class") when they got handily beat by more than one person in other classes.

Keeping the ranging by focus aspect hurts growth and inclusion. Solid laser rangefinder is what $125? But a scope that ranges well in a combined class with zero scope restrictions is gonna make it hard for those couple hundred dollar scope users to compete with those couple thousand dollar scope owners.

The single combined class idea would also hurt the springers, at least the current Open and Hunter springerz. Although that's an ever dwindling #. Basically the few that like springers would need to find a home in WFTF.
 
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I like it.

Though if there were a “limited” class, I think it should be like Limited Pistol (no support aids allowed). Though, like Limited Pistol, there might be very few takers.

I could understand allowing range finders in a true “open” class, but I also agree with you - “Range finding is the soul of FT…”, at least as many of us understand it.
 
Making "open" class as suggested would do a few things: keep people with mobility issues coming out as forced positions aren't as much of an issue, give the guys with the high $ scopes a home as they don't need a rangefinder anyway. You should keep "hunter" class but restrict the scopes to 16X, no parallax range finding, no clicking. This would take hunter back to it's roots of eyeballing the distance to the target and eliminate the need for high $ scopes.
 
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it would definitely simplify things. Cole brought up a good discussion on the price of a rangefinder versus a price of quality scope that ranges well. That is a deterrent to some people the cost involved with anything you enjoy. The guys with the $200 scopes are just gonna have to realize their limitations and work with what they got. I see nothing wrong with using whatever you want rangefinders etc. in open class. It's like any other hobby I've ever had in my life if you enjoy it you find ways to throw more money at it. I would hate to add up the thousands of dollars I've spent on deer hunting. Not one guided hunt but all leasing the land and running corn to feed those stupid animals. I'm past that thank God so I can throw that money at this sport.

Jon
 
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I like it. Mostly.

Putting everybody (that's somewhere between 12 and 20fpe) in the same class would be great.

Matches would have far fewer "winners." Ie match high would be the winner, as it should be. From past discussions of similar topics, some of the regulars aren't going to like that they don't get to go home and say they won (while quietly mumbling "my class") when they got handily beat by more than one person in other classes.

Keeping the ranging by focus aspect hurts growth and inclusion. Solid laser rangefinder is what $125? But a scope that ranges well in a combined class with zero scope restrictions is gonna make it hard for those couple hundred dollar scope users to compete with those couple thousand dollar scope owners.

The single combined class idea would also hurt the springers, at least the current Open and Hunter springerz. Although that's an ever dwindling #. Basically the few that like springers would need to find a home in WFTF.
Sorry, I should have specified that piston would still be it's own division. So you would have Open PCP, Open Springer, WFTF PCP and WFTF Springer.
Since hunter springer is typically shooting 14- 16 fpe, range finding is more critical for them, so being able to use the full scope for range finding would improve their scores relative to themselves (not relative to PCP scores).

For the $200 scope guys, they are already competing with the $2,000 scope shooters. At 16x, there less difference than at 50x, but when's the last time you saw someone getting on the podium using a $200 scope. I mean, we know a guy that won the national champion title with a UTG, but that's pretty few and far between. And he's not using a UTG now. (Full disclosure, I'm currently using a $250 scope for hunter because I like the reticle. I would rather use my $1,000 Falcon, but it range finds the same at 16x and I don't like the reticle for holding over.)

And putting rangefinders into field target would be a deal killer for a lot of people. I don't really care that much, I drop maybe 0-2 shots per match due to ranging issues using a 13fpe springer. But for a lot of old timers, rangefinders are like metal bats in baseball.

I feel like we did an experiment at the club last year or the year before where we gave out the ranges for the targets. Didn't see much of a difference in scores.

One last thing I forgot, courses would probably have to be longer and tougher.
 
Good post. We've already done that over the past two or three years. See link here:

https://www.extremefieldtarget.com/grand-prix.html
Kind of, but there are still scope and gun restrictions. But since the ranges are known and there is no off-hand or kneeling, the scope and gun restrictions don't really matter. This is coming from someone that had to buy a protractor to make sure the wings on his adjustable butt pad weren't past 30 degrees.
 
My opinions on laser rangefinders in field target aren't popular, but the silliness of strapping dinner plates to the sides of our $$$ scopes is the biggest hurdle to entry for new shooters. Again, in my opinion.

In theory, current Open or WFTF are where we'd expect to see the most expensive scopes, but as Hunter gains in popularity, I see the average price tag of scopes on Hunter rigs at matches going up, up up.
 
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“Open Division

The Open Division rules are intended to promote diversity and innovation to advance the state of the art in the sport of Field Target. See section on Open Division Rules.”

…advance the state of the art…


Separate range finding devices are not currently legal in AAFTA. Laser devices are not currently legal in AAFTA. Laser range finders are the current state of the art. I think at least electronic scopes with built in laser range finders should be allowed.

“State if the art” in this day and age inevitably involves some electronics.
 
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Two rifle class's broken down further with Piston or PCP
#1 class ) Open as you say where any combo of current legal gear can be used or not used. 20fpe limit
#2 class ) WFTF just as the Europeans shoot it to the letter. 12 fpe limit

No range finders, no known distances, time limits for shots.

Simple ... Competitive while staying very accommodating for most.
 
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I would just do WFTF as done in Europe so it’s an international standard. One class and be done with it. I guess two classes piston and pcp (I shoot both and recognize the difference). That way everyone is in the same class going head to head with the same rules. With the loosened rules in Hunter class over the past 10 years to accommodate bitching it’s an equipment race already so let’s just do it right and everyone shoot WFTF rules and even the playing field. Those that are good will still be good and those that struggle will still struggle. At least when I go home I will know how well I did. What typically happens, I get home and my wife asks how I did and I tell her I came in 2nd (out of the two that shot in my class). It would be a sacrifice for most everyone. For example I shoot open class. I shoot open class with 12fpe rifles (piston & pcp). I shoot open class because I like shooting with the harness in lieu of a shooting coat. From what I can tell they work pretty much equally. Problem is I am in Texas and a harness is much better when it’s 110 degrees out. I am not going to try to change the rules for WFTF to include a harness because I find it more comfortable due to heat. I will wear the jacket, like some of the others I shoot with, or I will just give up some of the advantages of a jacket and shoot in a t-shirt and roll the dice. At the end of the day I made my choices using the same rules along with every other person shooting that day and end up where I end up. I am good with that result.
 
Making "open" class as suggested would do a few things: keep people with mobility issues coming out as forced positions aren't as much of an issue, give the guys with the high $ scopes a home as they don't need a rangefinder anyway. You should keep "hunter" class but restrict the scopes to 16X, no parallax range finding, no clicking. This would take hunter back to it's roots of eyeballing the distance to the target and eliminate the need for high $ scopes.
I thought about this, basically making the limited class similar to European HFT. Problem is, I don't think anyone would shoot it. Especially if the course was set up to be competitive for the people shooting open and wftf, which in my mind would be a lot of 40+ yard shots and some elevated shots. I believe Euro HFT doesn't go past 40 or 45 yards. I'm assuming the reason for that is because it's hard to set a scope to be shootable without adjusting parallax from 10 to 55 yards. We could go nuts and make Limited class into Iron Sights class. Shoot whatever you want, however you want, but no glass on the gun. That sounds like type 2 fun, I could see a small number of shooters being very interested in that.
 
I thought about this, basically making the limited class similar to European HFT. Problem is, I don't think anyone would shoot it. Especially if the course was set up to be competitive for the people shooting open and wftf, which in my mind would be a lot of 40+ yard shots and some elevated shots. I believe Euro HFT doesn't go past 40 or 45 yards. I'm assuming the reason for that is because it's hard to set a scope to be shootable without adjusting parallax from 10 to 55 yards. We could go nuts and make Limited class into Iron Sights class. Shoot whatever you want, however you want, but no glass on the gun. That sounds like type 2 fun, I could see a small number of shooters being very interested in that.
If everyone shoots the same class you don’t have to worry about stuff like this. Just shoot WFTF like the rest of the world.
 
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If everyone shoots the same class you don’t have to worry about stuff like this. Just shoot WFTF like the rest of the world.
12 fpe in the winds we deal with all season is a deal breaker !!! If all we could shoot was 12 fpe and worse WFTF equipment rules we would have no SVFTC club .. so X2 on deal breakers.

Of our monthly 22-26 shooters we are north of 75% Hunter PCP Shooters with a few piston gun at times.
 
Good discussion

As a hunter, the only time I use hold-over is when I’m using an LPVO, I don’t have time to dial, or it’s an easy shot without much holdover.

I’d venture to say that most hunters use a rangefinder. And very few hunters use their parallax for range finding.

Rangefinders (or a known distance that is marked) can be far less expensive than a scope and oversized parallax wheel that ranges really well.

I’d venture to say that most scopes that range-find well, will also come equipped with decent dialing capabilities.

I think the most attractive part of HFT/EFT is that it allows the use of common equipment like buckets & sticks. At shorter distance like HFT a 16x magnification limit seems reasonable, but if a shooter wants to dial… let them dial!

Personally, I’d like to see HFT be more like EFT, but limited to 55y with a 20FPE cap.

-Michael
 
I thought about this, basically making the limited class similar to European HFT. Problem is, I don't think anyone would shoot it. Especially if the course was set up to be competitive for the people shooting open and wftf, which in my mind would be a lot of 40+ yard shots and some elevated shots. I believe Euro HFT doesn't go past 40 or 45 yards. I'm assuming the reason for that is because it's hard to set a scope to be shootable without adjusting parallax from 10 to 55 yards. We could go nuts and make Limited class into Iron Sights class. Shoot whatever you want, however you want, but no glass on the gun. That sounds like type 2 fun, I could see a small number of shooters being very interested in that.
What I suggested was not allowing parallax adjustment for range finding. You can still adjust parallax to clean up the fuzzys. The graduations on the parallax knob would be covered
 
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IMHO at this point in the American FT game, Open, Hunter, and Unlimited, should all be combined into one class with LRF's allowed. Hunter can dial and use whatever magnification they wish.
Why, because I've seen it happen too many times now that the best shooter who got the wind right the most and made the least mistakes was the match high score regardless of division.
A couple months ago my friend Bobby got high score not using any aids and he's around 70.

Combine springer classes. LRF allowed.

Also because the people setting up the course are using a LRF to make sure the targets are no closer than 10y, also no farther than 55y, won't have an advantage anymore knowing the exact distance to the farther targets. ;):p

Leave WFTF as is.
But I also think the best of these are fully capable of getting high match score.

Set up kneeling lanes with exactly twice the difficulty factor of the offhand lanes.
Half point per hit if sticks are used in offhand.

Extend the farthest distance from 55y to 65y.