Events 7th and final National 50 benchrest match of our 2023 Season (Marion, OH)

[igolfat8]

Thanks. Do you shoot 5 shot groups or one shot in each target then repeat? It makes a difference.

@Centercut , I realize it makes a difference Mike and frankly I never gave it much thought before you brought it up. It might be pretty difficult to police shooting one shot per bull then transitioning and I’d think it would come down to the honor system. I think we will talk about it at the pre-match meeting. It might be good to give it a try because I’m pretty sure most guys shot groups last time.

On second thought I wonder if it might help or hinder shooters count their 5 shots per bull easier or more difficult?

 

[Centercut]

@Centercut , I realize it makes a difference Mike and frankly I never gave it much thought before you brought it up. It might be pretty difficult to police shooting one shot per bull then transitioning and I’d think it would come down to the honor system. I think we will talk about it at the pre-match meeting. It might be good to give it a try because I’m pretty sure most guys shot groups last time.

On second thought I wonder if it might help or hinder shooters count their 5 shots per bull easier or more difficult?

It would certainly be more difficult compared to 5 shot groups. But you are correct, it would be hard to make sure everyone did it and you’d be on the honor system. My point is that if you intend this as practice for RMAC or EBR it’s more realistic to shoot one bull at a time. Some think it doesn’t make a difference but they are a tiny minority. The vast majority of competitive 100Y BR shooters know it makes a difference, and the few that don't think it does do not compete at 100Y.

 

[rhbrink]

Hi @Centercut (Mike),

We are using a 200 yard center fire target. It was suggested to me by Mike N. It’s a lot more forgiving and also cost effective as compared to the large EBR targets. We’ve used it on two prior matches and it has been well received. We score it with N50 plugs using best edge scoring. Each competitor must fire 5 shots into each bull. If there are 6 or more holes in a target then we score that bull as a zero. That may be wrong to score it as a zero but we were on the fence as which hole do we throw out? If we go down that path then what is to stop a shooter from firing a dozen or more holes? Therefore we just decided to limit each bull to 5 scoring holes.

Here is a link to the targets.

National Target International Bench Rest Shooters Target IBS 200 YD

These heavy paper targets are great for practice or competition.

www.midwayusa.com

The normal procedure when too many hits are on one bull is to score the bottom five scores minus one point. But it's your match so do whatever you think is right. Just curious how big is the 10 ring on that 200 yard target?

At my home club we have used the Cast Bullet Association score target and I think that it is about right, the 10 ring at 100 yards is .74 inches the X ring is .074 that's pretty dang hard to hit! If anyone is interested I could send you a few to try out? It has red scoring rings against a buff background, good to see air rifle hits, it has six bulls like the benchrest target one practice and five bulls for record. Any body interested? Centercut?

 

[Centercut]

The normal procedure when too many hits are on one bull is to score the bottom five scores minus one point. But it's your match so do whatever you think is right. Just curious how big is the 10 ring on that 200 yard target?

At my home club we have used the Cast Bullet Association score target and I think that it is about right, the 10 ring at 100 yards is .74 inches the X ring is .074 that's pretty dang hard to hit! If anyone is interested I could send you a few to try out? It has red scoring rings against a buff background, good to see air rifle hits, it has six bulls like the benchrest target one practice and five bulls for record. Any body interested? Centercut?

Thanks for the offer. I use the EBR targets (7 ring to X ring) and the 10 ring is 0.485 inches, the 9 ring is 1.2 inches and the 8 ring is 2 inches. I normally practice on these at 110 yards to prep for RMAC and EBR.

 

[igolfat8]

@Centercut, How do they score multiple hits on an EBR / RMAC target?

 

[Centercut]

@Centercut, How do they score multiple hits on an EBR / RMAC target?

You are only allowed 25 shots total on the card. Any over that are -10 points each. If more than 1 are in a target they take the higher score. But the 25 max shots on the card still applies. So for example if the card has 26 shots. One target has a 9 and a 5. The 9 gets scored. The 5 is a -10 points. Make sense?

I don’t agree with that and think it should be treated like every other BR type of competition. If there are two (or more) on a target it’s the lower score minus 1 point. In the above example, the 9 would not count. The 5 would count minus 1 point so that target would be a 4.

 

[igolfat8]

The normal procedure when too many hits are on one bull is to score the bottom five scores minus one point.

So how would you score this @rhbrink ? Hypothetical target has a 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 & 5.

 

[tommyb]

Hi Tom,
I will try to remember to get some additional pictures that you mentioned and post them after the match. I personally haven’t shot the 100Y match yet. I’m wearing lots of hats; such as match director, sign in guy, scorer, protest arbitrator and competitor as well as trying to get around to meet, greet and attend to all of our shooters. I’m not complaining because I thoroughly enjoy the day but as soon as I finish my 3rd N50 card I have to tally the scores and prep the award certificates to hand out immediately after the 100Y match is finished. Phew…

Tim

Did not realize you were doing all of the above by yourself. You have a full plate. My suggestion would only make sense if you had extra help at some future matches.

I think the N50 matches in Sunnyvale have a couple folks helping to collect stats and score targets, etc.

 

[rhbrink]

So how would you score this @rhbrink ? Hypothetical target has a 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 & 5.

Throw out the 10, add 9+8+7+6+5=35 then subtract one point for too many hits equals total score of 34. If there were by chance two extra hits you would always use the five lowermost scores minus one point for every extra hit. These are center fire and muzzleloader rules, I notice air rifle rules are often a bit different. But it's your game, your house so do what you think is right as long as you stay consistent there shouldn't be too many complaints.

RB

 

[igolfat8]

Throw out the 10, add 9+8+7+6+5=35 then subtract one point for too many hits equals total score of 34. If there were by chance two extra hits you would always use the five lowermost scores minus one point for every extra hit. These are center fire and muzzleloader rules, I notice air rifle rules are often a bit different. But it's your game, your house so do what you think is right as long as you stay consistent there shouldn't be too many complaints.

RB

@rhbrink , Thanks that makes sense. I wasn't sure if it was -1 point for the total or -1 for each of the five scores?

 

[igolfat8]

Tim

Did not realize you were doing all of the above by yourself. You have a full plate. My suggestion would only make sense if you had extra help at some future matches.

I think the N50 matches in Sunnyvale have a couple folks helping to collect stats and score targets, etc.

Hi Tom,
I usually have two other folks helping to score with me as well as an extra RO or two that helps out. I would be hard pressed to do it all. It's a busy day but one that I enjoy and look forward to. Many hands make light work.

 

[tommyb]

You are only allowed 25 shots total on the card. Any over that are -10 points each. If more than 1 are in a target they take the higher score. But the 25 max shots on the card still applies. So for example if the card has 26 shots. One target has a 9 and a 5. The 9 gets scored. The 5 is a -10 points. Make sense?

I don’t agree with that and think it should be treated like every other BR type of competition. If there are two (or more) on a target it’s the lower score minus 1 point. In the above example, the 9 would not count. The 5 would count minus 1 point so that target would be a 4.

Thanks for clearing this up!

I have done this a ‘few’ ( ha ha ) times by myself shooting practice EBR or N50 targets and never could remember which score to count if I accidentally had two shots on one bull. Although it’s tough to swallow, I think it s more fair to use the lower score minus 1, if there are two shots in one bull.

In another thread, I mentioned the term, ‘ Senior Pass.’ Seems like I am earning more than my share some days at the range.

 

[thomasair]

The goal should always be to format the game so it does the best job of finding the best shooter with the smallest percentage of chance involved.

Rhbrink has pointed out the right way to do it. It’s just a logical extension of the rule of lowest score minus one used in single bull single shot formats worldwide. The idea discourages taking extra shots, but doesn’t automatically put someone out of the game for making a format mistake.

All proper BR cards have boxes around each bull. The reason is so that the scorer can easily assign a shot to a particular bull. It eliminates rules like counting the number of shots on a card and assessing 10 point deductions for each extra shot. You simply score what is in the box.

Mike

 

[jdwarren]

The goal should always be to format the game so it does the best job of finding the best shooter with the smallest percentage of chance involved.

Rhbrink has pointed out the right way to do it. It’s just a logical extension of the rule of lowest score minus one used in single bull single shot formats worldwide. The idea discourages taking extra shots, but doesn’t automatically put someone out of the game for making a format mistake.

All proper BR cards have boxes around each bull. The reason is so that the scorer can easily assign a shot to a particular bull. It eliminates rules like counting the number of shots on a card and assessing 10 point deductions for each extra shot. You simply score what is in the box.

Mike

I really like the boxes around each bull. But, I can't think of any good reason that a person should shoot more than 25 shots at 25 record bulls. I would keep the 10 point deduction for extra shots.

--Jim

 

[igolfat8]

Well today’s match is complete. We had 17 shooters today and we voted whether to continue or end the 100 yard match and the majority vote was in favor of ending the 100Y matches and focus on N50 going forward. I am sure some shooters were disappointed but we have to follow the consensus of the majority.

The wind was very challenging today as seen from the flag tails:

And the scores reflected the challenging winds:

A special thanks to Tim Swan for designing the award certificates:

Lastly a very special congratulations to John Hakius for posting the very first 250 card and two equally impressive 249’s with his pro class 2500X!

 

[igolfat8]

Here are more random pics that @tommyb requested. Sorry that I didnt get any pics of the line or range but it was on the last 100Y card that I remembered he requested pictures, duh… sorry.

Also a special thanks to our youngest 7 year old shooter, Cooper, who joined us for a fun filled day.

 

[igolfat8]

More pics that Paul Haubert took while RSO'ing the match.

 

[tommyb]

Thanks for the pics Tim! Congrats to all shooters; 50y and 100y.

Looks like a great turnout. The FX Impacts did pretty well at 100 yards. Assume you were using the 200 yard Red Bulls targets for scoring the 100 yard fun shoot?

Tom

 

[igolfat8]

@tommyb Hi Tom, Yes your assumption is correct. The Red 200 yard IBS targets were used for the 100 fun match.

 

[tommyb]

I have to try this with my IBS 200 yard targets at my local range.

I know I have tried this with my Anschutz RF 1907 using these targets at 100 yards, but I can’t recall if I tried with an airgun. I have a new EVOL Paradigm .30 caliber that needs to try this.

I have no point of reference, since these are the first IBS 200 yard targets I have seen on AGN shot at 100 yards; but these scores look pretty good for both pellets and slugs with airguns. You guys had some tricky winds right?

I know there were only a few shooters, but four out of six scores were in the 230-240 range at 100 yards. Not too shabby