Thanks to a little bit of research and a lot of help from the folks on here, I've narrowed down my search for an airgun to sub in for my .22 rimfires to a Weihrauch HW95 or a Benjamin Marauder. I recognize the price difference, but would be willing to pay more if the difference in range is that much different. If I had both rifles in .177 how would they compare accuracy wise at 50 yards? 75? What about the same yardages but in .22? I like the idea of the HW95, but if the marauder is far and above superior at those ranges I would be willing to increase my budget.
50-75 Yard Squirrel Rifle
- Thread starter Coues106
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It's not really fair to compare a very nice 13-15fpe spring gun to a 13-35fpe+ PCP repeater as springers are far more difficult to shoot accurately, usually less powerful and usually single shot. Even though they may shoot comparable groups at 50 yards, in trained hands, most will shoot the Marauder better. At 75 yards all of this is magnified. The Marauder is going to win in pretty much every category in any caliber.
Springers are simple machines you pick them up and shoot them there is nothing to adjust you find the right pellet for your barrel and they shoot quite well.
PCP guns are completely different animals. There are adjustments, most pellets shoot better at specific speeds, and you can adjust and fine tune the gun, for the specific pellet you are shooting, to get the best accuracy out of it. You can also turn the power up or down a considerable amount. So less power for plinking in close and max power for hunting or long range shooting.
Springers don't need any help you cock them put them up to your shoulder and pull the trigger time an time again. No extras to buy.
PCP's on the other hand need help. They need clean dry air whether it is supplied by a tank, compressor or hand pump. So you will need to invest more money in a pump, tank or compressor as well as a filter to keep moisture out of your gun or tanks.
PCPs will take you over to the dark side where the addiction is strong and will introduce you to the bottomless pit that will constantly empty the bills from your wallet and change from your pockets. Although they may leave you just enough for Taco-Bell.
Where as the springers will not get that serious with all of this and will usually leave you with enough for Steak and Lobster at the Red Lobster.
Springers are simple machines you pick them up and shoot them there is nothing to adjust you find the right pellet for your barrel and they shoot quite well.
PCP guns are completely different animals. There are adjustments, most pellets shoot better at specific speeds, and you can adjust and fine tune the gun, for the specific pellet you are shooting, to get the best accuracy out of it. You can also turn the power up or down a considerable amount. So less power for plinking in close and max power for hunting or long range shooting.
Springers don't need any help you cock them put them up to your shoulder and pull the trigger time an time again. No extras to buy.
PCP's on the other hand need help. They need clean dry air whether it is supplied by a tank, compressor or hand pump. So you will need to invest more money in a pump, tank or compressor as well as a filter to keep moisture out of your gun or tanks.
PCPs will take you over to the dark side where the addiction is strong and will introduce you to the bottomless pit that will constantly empty the bills from your wallet and change from your pockets. Although they may leave you just enough for Taco-Bell.
Where as the springers will not get that serious with all of this and will usually leave you with enough for Steak and Lobster at the Red Lobster.
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Only the RWS 54 or 56 are up to the task in the springer category when shooting past 40 yards. In fact those are the only models can come close to PCP accuracy without having to try hard.
Any other Springer that's NOT SEMI RECOILLESS you are only limited to 40 yards may be 50 yards max for consistent hits that's only if you are disciplined enough and have your ON GAME. Normal recoilling springers give you a handicap that limits your maximum effective dead on contestant hitting distance.
If only shooting up to 40 yards then pretty much any decent spring gun may do.
You can shoot up to 200 yards with the RWS 54 and 56 if you want not so with other springers that are 50 yard max shooters. The Olympic winning FWB300s is also worth looking into if shooting up to 60 yards with no wind. Effortless to cock and shoot pretty darn quiet. Hard to miss with them. Around $500 used.
Any other Springer that's NOT SEMI RECOILLESS you are only limited to 40 yards may be 50 yards max for consistent hits that's only if you are disciplined enough and have your ON GAME. Normal recoilling springers give you a handicap that limits your maximum effective dead on contestant hitting distance.
If only shooting up to 40 yards then pretty much any decent spring gun may do.
You can shoot up to 200 yards with the RWS 54 and 56 if you want not so with other springers that are 50 yard max shooters. The Olympic winning FWB300s is also worth looking into if shooting up to 60 yards with no wind. Effortless to cock and shoot pretty darn quiet. Hard to miss with them. Around $500 used.
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Neither are good enough for accurate and humane shots pass 30 yards unless you get the m-Rod with LW barrel. In the same price range there are PCP that are more capable at reaching out to 70 yards......granted they will be a bit more money and most aren’t hand pump friendly.
edit: I assumed you would want to be able to hand pump because you have a springer in the list.
edit: I assumed you would want to be able to hand pump because you have a springer in the list.
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The Maruader will double your range over the HW for a very modest increase in cost - 22 without question...
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As a fellow squirrel hunter, you are asking an airgun to do what an airgun was not designed to do.
They are a short-range weapon for populated areas.
They are a short-range weapon for populated areas.
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This assertion is simply incorrect. Many good .177 or .22 spring rifles are absolutely capable of taking squirrels out to 50 yards. That said, comparing a PCP to a spring rifle is comparing apples to oranges. The PCP will almost inevitably shoot harder, with as good or better accuracy and will be gentler upon optics. Seventy five yards is a stretch for any spring rifle, unless you have had it tuned, the weather is right, you are capable of making the shot, and you hold your mouth right...
jus' sayin'
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I routinely and humanely hit out to 45 yards no problem at all. I self impose past this limit. My DRT shots include chipmunks at 45 yards, as well as squirrels. I hit paper and spinners past this limit, and know I could extend my hunting, but I dont.
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Maybe you guys has better luck however. 45 yards isn’t that great deal better than 30. Personally if the gun can’t stack pellets at 30 yards I wouldn’t really bother. Regular MRod has good chance at 50 yards especially if you go for vital but 75 yards is a different story and I go for head shot not vitals and the match/LW version definitely can do that with predictability but you need to win the barrel lottery on the regular/crosman version. If the OP plans on vital shots then definitely .22, actually .25 is much better and MRod for sure is better (crosman barrel).
edit: my personal preference for squirrel vital shots are .25 or bigger only. I would only take head shots with .22 and 177 especially, however 177 will drift in the wind a lot more unless you shot the 10 grain redesign at 900 FPS then 75 yards head shot isn’t that big deal but you will need that LW barrel for that kind of accuracy.
edit: my personal preference for squirrel vital shots are .25 or bigger only. I would only take head shots with .22 and 177 especially, however 177 will drift in the wind a lot more unless you shot the 10 grain redesign at 900 FPS then 75 yards head shot isn’t that big deal but you will need that LW barrel for that kind of accuracy.
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Accuracy isn't the issue at these ranges but rather energy. By design, pellets start losing energy fast, which makes them excellent for populated areas. Slugs are specially ammunition and require an airgun designed to shoot them and shouldn't be considered the norm.
Have you ever shot a squirrel and watched your bullet bounce off its ribs or made a perfect headshot, then followed it up with two more and still had to run down your quarry down? If you don't transfer energy to your target and have the ability to penetration vitals, then your just maiming. Winter fur is especially hard to penetrate and requires more energy than summer.
Airguns like old-time rifles are limit in power due to volume and require caliber increase for energy increase.
Have you ever shot a squirrel and watched your bullet bounce off its ribs or made a perfect headshot, then followed it up with two more and still had to run down your quarry down? If you don't transfer energy to your target and have the ability to penetration vitals, then your just maiming. Winter fur is especially hard to penetrate and requires more energy than summer.
Airguns like old-time rifles are limit in power due to volume and require caliber increase for energy increase.
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Their are experts here who can kill a pig with a paintball two counties away. Dont worry if you keep posting you will get to know a few of them.
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My opinion is use a rimfire 22 whenever possible if you are interested in shooting far. That means no houses nearby. That is not easy to find near me anymore so the Mrod is the tool of choice with a 35 yard maximum. My breakbarrel is limited to a 25 yard maximum. My maximum for my rimfire is 55 yards. How did I come up with these numbers? When shooting at a live animal and assuming you are taking head shots trajectory is critical. I can hold on with my break barrel from 15 to 25 yards. With the Mrod 15 to 35 yards and when set up properly I can shoot my powder burner from 15 to 55 yards and take a head shot without worrying about pellet/bullet drop. Also while I take nothing but head shots with the Mrod and Ruger rimfire I take boiler house shots with the break barrel. This is because under field conditions I am not as confident with shot placement and a low hit on a squirrels head won't get the job done to my satisfaction.
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There are two issues with 50-75 yard shots. First, you must hit vitals at a minimum and brain if you want to use a lower power gun. Brain is at most an inch target. Can you, from field positions, reliably hit a one inch target? Will you wait for the right angle? I can do it at 15 yards. At 25-30 yards I can reliably hit the vitals but not the brain. I would not use the Prod past 30 maybe 35 yards. It only has a 2-7 scope on it and it is hard to see the squirrel clearly at long range at that low a magnification. So first issue is placing the shot. In my opinion, that is the biggest issue.
Second issue is hitting the squirrel with enough energy to drop it. My experience with my Prod is that 12fpe at the muzzle will drop a squirrel reliably only with a brain shot - and this is 20-25 yard shots. So retuned the Prod up to 17-18 fpe so I was hitting the squirrel with 12 fpe or more. Now when I hit them in the vitals they drop. Chest shot may take a finisher but they don't run off. Neck shots have not required a finisher. So if you want to apply this to the yardage you are talking about you need 12 fpe at contact. Pellets loose velocity fast. I haven't done the math but it would not be terribly difficult. Not sure you get there with a 22, maybe. But a 25 would probably get you there. But only if you can reliably hit the vitals.
Second issue is hitting the squirrel with enough energy to drop it. My experience with my Prod is that 12fpe at the muzzle will drop a squirrel reliably only with a brain shot - and this is 20-25 yard shots. So retuned the Prod up to 17-18 fpe so I was hitting the squirrel with 12 fpe or more. Now when I hit them in the vitals they drop. Chest shot may take a finisher but they don't run off. Neck shots have not required a finisher. So if you want to apply this to the yardage you are talking about you need 12 fpe at contact. Pellets loose velocity fast. I haven't done the math but it would not be terribly difficult. Not sure you get there with a 22, maybe. But a 25 would probably get you there. But only if you can reliably hit the vitals.
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OK, I did the math and a 22 PCP can get there. I don't think you can push a 14.3 hard enough but a 15.89 grain JSB at about 800 fps muzzle velocity would deliver enough energy at 75 yards to reliably kill a squirrel with a hit to the vitals IMHO. A 18.13 grain JSB would only need to leave at 730 to do it. A 25.39 grain 25 caliber JSB would only have to leave at 600 fps. But you will have to also deal with drop and wind drift. I did not calculate drop but wind drift in just a 5 mph wind would be 4 inches for the 18.13 grain JSB 22 caliber. Easily enough to miss. If you think it's 10 and it's really 15 you miss. You would need to know wind velocity to about 1-2 mph to hit a 1 inch target. Drop isn't going to be a lot easier.
So it comes down to how accurately you can shoot at that distance. The guns that can put enough energy on the target are available and some might be accurate enough but you have to be VERY good with the range and the wind or you will not be successful.
So it comes down to how accurately you can shoot at that distance. The guns that can put enough energy on the target are available and some might be accurate enough but you have to be VERY good with the range and the wind or you will not be successful.
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If you consider the Marauder, here is some test data from straight shooters. Energy values are certainly helpful, but momentum is what you can derive from the data when comparing the 22 to the 25...
In the link below I entered the data for the 25 caliber Beeman Kodiak with a zero of 45 yards; this will effectively give a one inch point blank range out to 51 yards - meaning the pellets path will not be above or below the zero more than one inch. Wind drift would be approximately 2 1/2" at 50 yards and at 75 - 5 3/4" - with 19 foot pounds of energy remaining.
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I agree that a 25 caliber is a better bet for 50-75 yard shots. If I convinced myself I could hit a squirrel reliably at that distance I would use my 25 Avenger, not my 22 caliber Prod.
Main reason to comment is to correct myself, however. I have shot squirrels at 20-25 yards with three different tunes in my Prod. The original tune, a slightly higher tune, and my current 17-18 fpe at the muzzle tune. I kept going up because they didn't stop running with vitals hits. At 12 fpe at impact, my first re-tune, they still ran. When I went up to 17-18 at the muzzle, 14-15 at impact, they have consistently dropped. Sorry for the misleading information in my first comment, I trusted my memory.
I don't think it's impossible to get a 22 to this power level at impact at 75 yards but it appears from your chart that a Marauder won't get there. I think a Avenger might. But a 25 caliber Marauder or Avenger would.
Main reason to comment is to correct myself, however. I have shot squirrels at 20-25 yards with three different tunes in my Prod. The original tune, a slightly higher tune, and my current 17-18 fpe at the muzzle tune. I kept going up because they didn't stop running with vitals hits. At 12 fpe at impact, my first re-tune, they still ran. When I went up to 17-18 at the muzzle, 14-15 at impact, they have consistently dropped. Sorry for the misleading information in my first comment, I trusted my memory.
I don't think it's impossible to get a 22 to this power level at impact at 75 yards but it appears from your chart that a Marauder won't get there. I think a Avenger might. But a 25 caliber Marauder or Avenger would.
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The .25 hades around 850 FPS will crush any squirrels with vital shots plus accurate enough if your gun is for headshot at 75 yards. Although it ai spread a little after 80 yards with a little wind but still more than enough for squirrel vital shots. I stopped using .25 hades because it wasn’t fun anymore, way too easy! Hahaha
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