Tuning 5 and 10 shot groups: Does it matter? (TX200 in .177)

[drpietrzak]

There has been discussion recently regarding the utility of 5-shot groups to understand consistency of ammo and rigs. Some claim it is of no utility, while others feel it is functional. This video is an initial comparison of the utility of 5-shot and 10-shot group processes. This video begins to explore the use of 10-shot and 5-shot groups to evaluate and diagnose shooting issues.

This video uses a Tx200 MK II (.177) pellet rifle shooting at 50-yards as an entry point. This was done as a pellet spring air rifle shooting at 50-yards is more impacted by various elements such as ammo consistency, skill of shooter, environmental conditions, etc. than many other rifles. The results should generalize well to other contexts. The similarities and differences of each shot string process, along with their diagnostic utility, are considered. The limitations of both are also provided.

It was a calm day, in the upper 80’s and humid. The setting was about 450 feet above sea level. Air Arms Field Heavy 10.3 with head size of 4.52 mm were used for projectiles. The rifle was shot from a bench using an Allen front rest with a Protektor front bag and a Protektor #13 rear bag. The TX200 is equipped with a Vortex Diamondback 6-24 scope.

 

[Sqwirl57]

More shots = more accurate data. Shooting an amazing 5 shot group is incredibly easy to do as a fluke. You'll see a lot of guys, especially newer shooters, claiming their gun is a sub MOA gun at whatever distance because they shoot one great group every 10 groups and claim the other 9 were the flukes. If you want to know what your gun is truly capable of go put 30 shots on a single target on a calm day.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

5 shots, 10 shots or just one per . ???

If that's what i want on any given range or target thats what it is. Only you know what meaning any of it holds at the time you shoot and if it accomplished your goal or fun factor.

Who am i to say otherwise? I can , but in the end it's what you wanted for your shooting enjoyment wether i like it , think it's silly or not. ..

P.s..
I like to see any of it.. then i can judge if i am doing ok or need to tighten up some .. lots give me reason to go back shoot to strive for a better result .

 

[Sqwirl57]

5 shots, 10 shots or just one per . ???

If that's what i want on any given range or target thats what it is. Only you know what meaning any of it holds at the time you shoot and if it accomplished your goal or fun factor.

Who am i to say otherwise? I can , but in the end it's what you wanted for your shooting enjoyment wether i like it , think it's silly or not. ..

You definitely aren't wrong but what you do for fun vs what you do for usable data are two different things.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

I guess every shot i take is usable data.
Though i dont need bar charts or graphs to tell me i stink

 

[Mycapt65]

IMO twice as many Five shot groups provides the same technical data as half as many ten shot groups.
I feel the higher the shot count per group the more you're testing the shooter. The rifle and ammo is gonna do the same thing in the same shot count it doesn't know where it's aimed. It's the shooter that's gonna drop the ball under pressure.
When I started shooting benched centerfire I started with three shot groups because of ammo cost. Eventually I got good enough to shoot a page of eight good three shot groups. So I thought I was good until I switched to five shot groups. My groups opened up. Usually on my fourth or fifth shot. Nothing changed but my mental pressure. The rifle was just as capable as before but the higher shot count was a greater test of my shooting capabilities.

 

[Sqwirl57]

IMO twice as many Five shot groups provides the same technical data as half as many ten shot groups.
I feel the higher the shot count per group the more you're testing the shooter. The rifle and ammo is gonna do the same thing in the same shot count it doesn't know where it's aimed. It's the shooter that's gonna drop the ball under pressure.
When I started shooting benched centerfire I started with three shot groups because of ammo cost. Eventually I got good enough to shoot a page of eight good three shot groups. So I thought I was good until I switched to five shot groups. My groups opened up. Usually on my fourth or fifth shot. Nothing changed but my mental pressure. The rifle was just as capable as before but the higher shot count was a greater test of my shooting capabilities.

This is my method. Shoot a 5 shot group and if it isn't a record, go for 10 and repeat. The pressure is off after 5 because you already know it wasn't anything special. If you end up at 20+ and still under a dime or nickel though you can still brag about it.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

This is my method. Shoot a 5 shot group and if it isn't a record, go for 10 and repeat. The pressure is off after 5 because you already know it wasn't anything special. If you end up at 20+ and still under a dime or nickel though you can still brag about it.

Amazing how that one stray takes a load off . Lol. Shrug shoulders and send in 5 more . For spite.

 

[Sqwirl57]

Amazing how that one stray takes a load off . Lol. Shrug shoulders and send in 5 more . For spite.

Lol you get it. Gotta turn weeds into roses somehow

 

[Mycapt65]

This is my method. Shoot a 5 shot group and if it isn't a record, go for 10 and repeat. The pressure is off after 5 because you already know it wasn't anything special. If you end up at 20+ and still under a dime or nickel though you can still brag about it.

I take a similar approach. If my five shot group is off target and don't obscure my POA I'll keep going until the POA is obliterated or the area is so polluted I can't tell where I'm landing. This helps me dial in the gun or me and stretches out my targets.

I don't shoot less than five shot groups except when checking the zero on my deer gun. Not much irks me more than when people post a single cherry picked group. Anyone can get luck once or twice a year. I try to post my entire page of groups.

 

[Sqwirl57]

I take a similar approach. If my five shot group is off target and don't obscure my POA I'll keep going until the POA is obliterated or the area is so polluted I can't tell where I'm landing. This helps me dial in the gun or me and stretches out my targets.

I don't shoot less than five shot groups except when checking the zero on my deer gun. Not much irks me more than when people post a single cherry picked group. Anyone can get luck once or twice a year. I try to post my entire page of groups.

Unless I'm doing something with an end goal on a paper I really can't post full pages. I like to use the WHOLE target when I'm goofing around so it usually looks like I took a 12ga to it. Theres always a smart a in the group that likes to point out random holes and be like "well what about that one?"

"That one good sir went where I was aiming 20 minutes ago for a quick wind read"

or

"There was ant on the page. I think I got him but I can't tell"

Then it just looks like I'm making excuses. I assume most people understand what I'm talking about here but it isn't really worth the hassle sometimes.

 

[scotton]

I prefer shooting 1 shot groups. Sometimes I get lazy and shoot 5 or 10 one shot groups at the same target, but they are all individual one shot groups.

 

[JEFFPPC]

In the powder game there is a saying, 3 shot groups tell you what the gun is capable of, 5 shot groups tell you how good the shooter is. A single group tells me little regardless of how many shots. Repeatable groups show me what I have.

 

[drpietrzak]

In the powder game there is a saying, 3 shot groups tell you what the gun is capable of, 5 shot groups tell you how good the shooter is. A single group tells me little regardless of how many shots. Repeatable groups show me what I have.

3 shot groups with center fire perhaps. Not so much rimfire which is closer here.

Consistent groups are the thing for me as well.