4 different BBs, 3 different barrels — accuracy with Daisy 499B airgun

I got a lot of irons in the fire right now but I would like to post some target shooting from the Barra just for grins, How many shots and what kind of yards or feet should I shoot at ? I shoot with a red dot is that OK , or should I be using open sights hope not my eyes are not that good anymore ,
Mike

Mike,
Red dot should be fine, and rested (on a bag or something) would be good, since you’re looking to see how accurate the gun is, not how good of an offhand shooter you are (although that would be interesting, too). A few 5 shot groups would be nice to see. I’ve been shooting at 7 meters (23 feet) to test the accuracy of various BBs and barrels with my Daisy 499B, with a peep sight, but I usually shoot at 5 meters offhand (plenty challenging for me). I’m usually getting around 1/2” groups at 7 meters, from a beanbag rest.
Greg
 
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Daisy Unplated Precision Shot, 7 meters rested, Daisy 499B barrel 1, 50 shots total.
This seems to be most accurate of the 4 BBs I tried in this barrel at least. Too bad, since it’s by far the most expensive (about 1 cent per round) and hard to find BB.


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Daisy 499B Barrel 3 with Daisy Precision Max BBs (the cheapest BBs of the 4 tested):
Accuracy equal to the best BB in Barrel 1 (Daisy Unplated Shot — the most expensive BB tested).
I’m back to suspecting that user variability (even from a rest) accounts for most of the perceived inaccuracy (rather than differences in the BBs).

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katfisch,
I'm enjoying following along with your results. Barrel 3 really likes the cheap BBs -- nice!

Is it the shooter? Some subtle difference in hold, or personal stress level, or how much coffee you had that morning? Hard to determine. With my Model 35, scoped, I know I'm centered on the bull before the shot. During and after the shot -- some deviation but usually very minor -- and I see fliers that are not consistent at all with what I see through the lens. I've fairly convinced myself it is not (significantly) me, but some defect in the ammo, or possibly some inconsistency in how the BB sits in the breech before it gets forced down the pipe. I shoot outdoors, so that plays in too. I presume you are indoors?
 
katfisch,
I'm enjoying following along with your results. Barrel 3 really likes the cheap BBs -- nice!

Is it the shooter? Some subtle difference in hold, or personal stress level, or how much coffee you had that morning? Hard to determine. With my Model 35, scoped, I know I'm centered on the bull before the shot. During and after the shot -- some deviation but usually very minor -- and I see fliers that are not consistent at all with what I see through the lens. I've fairly convinced myself it is not (significantly) me, but some defect in the ammo, or possibly some inconsistency in how the BB sits in the breech before it gets forced down the pipe. I shoot outdoors, so that plays in too. I presume you are indoors?
Yes, I’m shooting indoors with the micrometer peep sight. I’m getting a little sick of shooting 50 BBs at a time, off the sandbag (actually a bag filled with unpopped popcorn) but I suppose I should keep on going since I invested in the 3 barrels and all those BBs. One of the things I love about shooting BBs is that 50 BBs of the most expensive shot costs me only 50 cents. Pretty cheap entertainment, and that free TARAN software is great!
The nice thing about the Daisy 499B is that you can hear the BB roll down the barrel and be captured by the magnet (“snick”), so there shouldn’t be much variability there. On occasion, I wasn’t paying attention and probably didn’t wait for the BB to seat — boy talk about flyers! The BBs can bounce off the basement cement wall (eye protection is important).
 
Daisy 499B Barrel 3 with Daisy Precision Max BBs (the cheapest BBs of the 4 tested):
Accuracy equal to the best BB in Barrel 1 (Daisy Unplated Shot — the most expensive BB tested).
I’m back to suspecting that user variability (even from a rest) accounts for most of the perceived inaccuracy (rather than differences in the BBs).

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You can change the barrels on this gun , all daisy barrels ? can you order with a different barrel ? Aftermarket barrels ?
Thanks Stan in KY .
 
Daisy 499B Barrel 3, Daisy Unplated Precision Shot (the most expensive of the 4 BBs I’m testing, at 1 cent per round, 6x the cost of the cheapest Daisy Precision Max BBs).
In this barrel, the Unplated Shot shoots 1 mm tighter groups, compared with Prec. Max, at 7 meters. At 5 meters, this would translate to 0.5 mm tighter groups (a little over 1/64 inch) — kind of splitting hairs, don’t you think?

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Yes, I’m shooting indoors with the micrometer peep sight. I’m getting a little sick of shooting 50 BBs at a time, off the sandbag (actually a bag filled with unpopped popcorn) but I suppose I should keep on going since I invested in the 3 barrels and all those BBs. One of the things I love about shooting BBs is that 50 BBs of the most expensive shot costs me only 50 cents. Pretty cheap entertainment, and that free TARAN software is great!
The nice thing about the Daisy 499B is that you can hear the BB roll down the barrel and be captured by the magnet (“snick”), so there shouldn’t be much variability there. On occasion, I wasn’t paying attention and probably didn’t wait for the BB to seat — boy talk about flyers! The BBs can bounce off the basement cement wall (eye protection is important).

When it starts becoming "work" maybe you are done. But yes, cheap thrills!
If barrel 3 with the cheap BBs is "good enough" maybe stop there. I see it did "even better" with the pricey BBs, but not enough to warrant the expense (unless EVERY point matters.) I also considered you might re-run an earlier set of 50, to see how consistent the results are -- before going further -- to see what kind of error window you've got.

About the magnetic tip, I wonder if the BB is always exactly centered on it, or sometimes a hair high low left right, affecting it's initial path. Yes, I'm absolutely splitting hairs.

And on the subject of splitting hairs, I usually look at the MOA column rather than mm, since it has finer resolution. If you set the TARAN file up with imperial units, you get 0.01" resolution, about 4x finer than 1mm. I looked at the underlying code to try to get it to display in 0.1mm, but javascript is not a quick learn, and it appears to be generating an SVG graphic, not simple text.

@beerthief
I think these 499 barrels swap pretty easily in a 499. I don't think other Daisy springers would readily fit a 499 barrel, but I bet someone out there has probably tried it. I removed (unscrewed) the 499 specific ends, and fit the bare barrel tube to my Daisy 35 for some testing, with a 3D printed adapter in-between. The pump up Daisies have the barrel pre-fit into the receiver, usually sold as a complete assembly, The barrel is removable from the assembly, but not as trivial as just unscrewing -- some heat is required.
 
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When it starts becoming "work" maybe you are done. But yes, cheap thrills!
If barrel 3 with the cheap BBs is "good enough" maybe stop there. I see it did "even better" with the pricey BBs, but not enough to warrant the expense (unless EVERY point matters.) I also considered you might re-run an earlier set of 50, to see how consistent the results are -- before going further -- to see what kind of error window you've got.

About the magnetic tip, I wonder if the BB is always exactly centered on it, or sometimes a hair high low left right, affecting it's initial path. Yes, I'm absolutely splitting hairs.

And on the subject of splitting hairs, I usually look at the MOA column rather than mm, since it has finer resolution. If you set the TARAN file up with imperial units, you get 0.01" resolution, about 4x finer than 1mm. I looked at the underlying code to try to get it to display in 0.1mm, but javascript is not a quick learn, and it appears to be generating an SVG graphic, not simple text.

@beerthief
I think these 499 barrels swap pretty easily in a 499. I don't think other Daisy springers would readily fit a 499 barrel, but I bet someone out there has probably tried it. I removed (unscrewed) the 499 specific ends, and fit the bare barrel tube to my Daisy 35 for some testing, with a 3D printed adapter in-between. The pump up Daisies have the barrel pre-fit into the receiver, usually sold as a complete assembly, The barrel is removable from the assembly, but not as trivial as just unscrewing -- some heat is required.
Re-Run (TRIAL 2): Daisy 499B, Barrel 3, Precision Max (least expensive) BBs, 7 meters, rested.
Looks pretty similar to first trial (1 mm tighter groups and equal to Daisy Unplated Shot).
I’m happy with the consistency, and now believe that 50 shots is enough to minimize shooter variability.

Thanks for your help and suggestions, TorqueMaster!

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Re-Run (TRIAL 2): Daisy 499B, Barrel 3, Precision Max (least expensive) BBs, 7 meters, rested.
Looks pretty similar to first trial (1 mm tighter groups and equal to Daisy Unplated Shot).
I’m happy with the consistency, and now believe that 50 shots is enough to minimize shooter variability.

Thanks for your help and suggestions, TorqueMaster!

That second trial is a real confidence booster that these results are accurate. Average SD of the two is 1.96 moa +/- 0.10, or +/- 5%.
I see the "Ururu" level expects results to be within -12/+16%. Set 2 was -0.20/2.06 of the first set = -10% -- within expectations and about as good as it's expected to get.

I noticed that the average POI shifted quite a bit between the sets, curious if there's a known change causing that? Can you "clock" the barrel to influence POI? One of the CF barrels I tried in my 35 was visibly off center at one end, so I installed it "shooting up" -- to minimize windage shifts and fight gravity a bit.
 
That second trial is a real confidence booster that these results are accurate. Average SD of the two is 1.96 moa +/- 0.10, or +/- 5%.
I see the "Ururu" level expects results to be within -12/+16%. Set 2 was -0.20/2.06 of the first set = -10% -- within expectations and about as good as it's expected to get.

I noticed that the average POI shifted quite a bit between the sets, curious if there's a known change causing that? Can you "clock" the barrel to influence POI? One of the CF barrels I tried in my 35 was visibly off center at one end, so I installed it "shooting up" -- to minimize windage shifts and fight gravity a bit.
TorqueMaster:
I need to read about the statistical analyses used by the TARAN software (I have no clue what an URURA LEVEL is, for instance, except higher is better :))

The 499B barrel assemblies finger tighten down pretty snug and consistent, so I doubt it’s a clocking issue. I mess with the sights when I'm shooting offhand (I tend to shoot high offhand, compared with off the bag), so that accounts for the POI change between sets.
Here’s an offhand 5 meter group from just now, with no sight adjustment since the second trial off the bag.

I’d like to see some of your Daisy 35 groups, if you wouldn’t mind sharing.

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