4 different BBs, 3 different barrels — accuracy with Daisy 499B airgun

[katfisch]

Finally got a bottle of Hornady/Umarex black coated BBs to try out and compare with my standard Daisy Precision Max BBs.
With the exception of one very wild flyer, the Daisys gave the smaller group.
Bear in mind, the muzzle loader Daisy 499B is a springer, so even with an artillery hold, rested, the gun is bound to bounce around a bit, and accuracy tests are always going to be a little suspect.

 

[Kgphotos]

Thanks for the comparison. I recently purchased a 499B so I found this interesting. So far all I've used are the Hornady black BBs. They have worked great for me but maybe I should try the Daisy BBs since they work better for your rifle. Thanks again,
Kenny

 

[katfisch]

Thanks for the comparison. I recently purchased a 499B so I found this interesting. So far all I've used are the Hornady black BBs. They have worked great for me but maybe I should try the Daisy BBs since they work better for your rifle. Thanks again,
Kenny

I shot my best ever offhand 5 shots with the Hornadys last night (49/50 with the standard 5 meter targets), so I‘m not necessarily favoring the Daisys yet, despite the slightly smaller 10-shot rested group.
I’d be interested in seeing your results if you try out the Daisys.
The Hornadys cost less than $5 a bottle locally (about 3 rounds for a penny), and the Daisys are 5 for a penny. Lots of target practice for next to nothing!

 

[katfisch]

Thanks for the comparison. I recently purchased a 499B so I found this interesting. So far all I've used are the Hornady black BBs. They have worked great for me but maybe I should try the Daisy BBs since they work better for your rifle. Thanks again,
Kenny

Kenny,

Here’s another test of both BBs at 7 meters and 10 meters, 10 shots each group. Interesting that the Hornadys tend to spread laterally, and the Daisys tend to spread vertically, similar to the previous 5 meter groups. Top 2 groups are at 7 meters, and bottom 2 groups at 10 meters, center hold on the black dot on everything.

 

[TorqueMaster]

Have you guys tried the Daisy Avanti .175 BBs that the gun is designed for? Not that the regular Daisy's aren't doing well.

I recently stumbled across some Daisy 0.1720 match BBs (1050 in a tub, like the Avantis) which measured up to be the most consistent BB I've found so far. Might be worth a try.

Daisy 1050-Count Match Grade Unplated Precision Shot

This handy plastic bottle holds 1,050 Match Grade unplated precision shot 52100 alloy steel. Unplated Precision Shot. .1720 Caliber.

www.daisy.com

My BB comparison chart:

BB Specification Chart - Airguns & Guns Forum

BB Specification Chart, Air guns, Airgun Forum

www.gatewaytoairguns.org

I've been testing BBs at 10m in a Daisy 35. So far my best results have been...the Daisy precision max (the standard cheapies) with 6 pumps and a 500mm carbon fiber 4.5mm barrel. It was doing ~1/2" 5-shot groups. Opens way up at 25 yards, though, my dream distance.

 

[katfisch]

Have you guys tried the Daisy Avanti .175 BBs that the gun is designed for? Not that the regular Daisy's aren't doing well.

I recently stumbled across some Daisy 0.1720 match BBs (1050 in a tub, like the Avantis) which measured up to be the most consistent BB I've found so far. Might be worth a try.

Daisy 1050-Count Match Grade Unplated Precision Shot

This handy plastic bottle holds 1,050 Match Grade unplated precision shot 52100 alloy steel. Unplated Precision Shot. .1720 Caliber.

www.daisy.com

My BB comparison chart:

BB Specification Chart - Airguns & Guns Forum

BB Specification Chart, Air guns, Airgun Forum

www.gatewaytoairguns.org

I've been testing BBs at 10m in a Daisy 35. So far my best results have been...the Daisy precision max (the standard cheapies) with 6 pumps and a 500mm carbon fiber 4.5mm barrel. It was doing ~1/2" 5-shot groups. Opens way up at 25 yards, though, my dream distance.

1/2“ groups at 10 meters is pretty amazing for a smooth barrel gun. Good on you!

 

[katfisch]

1/2“ groups at 10 meters is pretty amazing for a smooth barrel gun. Good on you!

Have you guys tried the Daisy Avanti .175 BBs that the gun is designed for? Not that the regular Daisy's aren't doing well.

I recently stumbled across some Daisy 0.1720 match BBs (1050 in a tub, like the Avantis) which measured up to be the most consistent BB I've found so far. Might be worth a try.

Daisy 1050-Count Match Grade Unplated Precision Shot

This handy plastic bottle holds 1,050 Match Grade unplated precision shot 52100 alloy steel. Unplated Precision Shot. .1720 Caliber.

www.daisy.com

My BB comparison chart:

BB Specification Chart - Airguns & Guns Forum

BB Specification Chart, Air guns, Airgun Forum

www.gatewaytoairguns.org

I've been testing BBs at 10m in a Daisy 35. So far my best results have been...the Daisy precision max (the standard cheapies) with 6 pumps and a 500mm carbon fiber 4.5mm barrel. It was doing ~1/2" 5-shot groups. Opens way up at 25 yards, though, my dream distance.

 

[katfisch]

I just received Daisy Precsion Ground Shot and Daisy Unplated Shot and the 10 meter groups are below.
I’m just not sure what to say, at this point.
Will shoot more groups in the next few days through the additional 2 barrels I also just received for the 499B.

 

[katfisch]

More BB testing with the Daisy 499B and 3 different barrels (are you sick of this, yet?).
The first 3 are with barrels I, II, and III, all with Daisy Unplated BBs.
I'm starting to think the Umarex/Hornady Black Coated BBs are pretty darned good, at least in barrel III (and 1/3 the cost of the Daisy Unplated BBs that are about 1 red cent per round…. yeah, I'm a skinflint).
Bear in mind, at 7 meters, the ctc groups should be twice the diameter compared with shooting at the 5 meters the gun is designed for (inverse square rule).

 

[katfisch]

Another set of rested shots with the Daisy 499B, 3 barrels, 5 shot, 4 different BBs (Hornady Black, Daisy Precision Max, Daisy Precision Ground Shot, Daisy Unplated Precision Steel Shot) through each barrel.
I'm beginning to think there’s not much difference between BBs or barrels — what do you think?

 

[TorqueMaster]

I think Barrel 1 is the best one ... based on this limited data. I've read it takes at least 30 shots to get a fair assessment of a given system ... unless it is obviously awful and all 30 are not needed. In this case, all are pretty close.

I used a tool called TARAN (http://taran.ptosis.ch/taran.html) that you can use online or download and use locally to analyze targets. I did the best I could to mark your shots.
Daisy Precision Ground did the best overall, but best to match ammo to the barrel.

 

[katfisch]

I think Barrel 1 is the best one ... based on this limited data. I've read it takes at least 30 shots to get a fair assessment of a given system ... unless it is obviously awful and all 30 are not needed. In this case, all are pretty close.

I used a tool called TARAN (http://taran.ptosis.ch/taran.html) that you can use online or download and use locally to analyze targets. I did the best I could to mark your shots.
Daisy Precision Ground did the best overall, but best to match ammo to the barrel.

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TorqueMaster,
THANKS, for all that work and analysis!
I'll be using the nifty TARAN software for some additional testing, for sure, and will not pass judgement quite yet, before putting a lot more shots through each “system” (i.e. each barrel/BB combo). I’m thinking maybe at least 50 shots would be more fair, especially since I believe user variability/randomness (breathing, cardiac ballistics, my eyesight, etc) may be quite substantial. I’m quite familiar with signal averaging techniques to extract the signal (in this case, accuracy of the system) from the noise.

 

[TorqueMaster]

You're welcome. I'm sort of weird -- I like collecting data and analyzing it almost as much as shooting.

50 shots each would be awesome. I think I got 30 from military testing of ammo to make sure it meets spec. I left off one of the key graphics from TARAN using your data since I combined all the systems into one pool, and the result pretty useless -- especially with barrel 2 always hitting significantly low. It aggregates all the shots on multiple bulls (assuming all from one "system" ) and analyses it for accuracy, precision, and confidence in the results. Here's one from my 177 Avenger over 20 shots -- "barely significant" confidence.

 

[fungun327]

always wanted a fair bb gun

 

[katfisch]

always wanted a fair bb gun

The Daisy 499B is way better than fair — it’s AWESOME!!!

 

[katfisch]

Daisy Precision Max BBs.
String of 50 shots (10 targets 5 shots each), Daisy 499B, Barrel 1, 7 meters, rested.

 

[katfisch]

Hornady Black BBs, 7 meters rested, Daisy 499B barrel 1, 50 shots total
(looks like these are a little better than the cheaper basic Daisy Precision Max BBs above)

C

 

[airgunmike56]

I do not shoot targets with my Barra 400 E , But for a BB gun its really impressed me with the accuracy .
Just saying .
Mike

 

[katfisch]

I do not shoot targets with my Barra 400 E , But for a BB gun its really impressed me with the accuracy .
Just saying .
Mike

It would be nice to see some example targets with that Barra! Looks like the Barra has at least twice the velocity of the Daisy 499B which is really dedicated to targets at 5 meters. Mine wasted some PEEPS last weekend though

 

[katfisch]

Daisy Precision Ground Shot, 7 meters rested, Daisy 499B barrel 1, 50 shots total
(edged out by Hornady Black BBs — in retrospect, I missed a flyer on bull #6, so it’s likely this would then equal the accuracy of Daisy Precision Max BBs). See second scatter plot — indeed Daisy PGS performance = Daisy Precision Max. But all 3 are so close, the differences may be meaningless for practical purposes shooting offhand at 5 meters, since the groups should be half the size as these shot at 7 meters. So the 90th percentile ring at 5 meters would be 6.5 mm with Daisy PGS and PM, and 5.5 mm with the Hornady Black BBs).