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.357 vs .45 , which one and why?

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rangur1

rangur1

Member
Jan 4, 2018
2,435
1,128
oceanside, peoples republic of new york
On a couple of big bore posts deciding pros and cons of a couple different guns I was researching in 357, more than one member asked why don't I get a 45? Ok, I know very little about projectiles in this range but I'm hearing that 357 guns I was checking out shot 140-160g slugs for 250 FPE. I can only extrapolate that 45 shoots what? 250- 300g? for about 400-450 FPE? Bear with me if I'm off on these values. So I see it as this: what can the 357 ethically kill up to? I would suspect 45 for maybe a big buck or bear, elk so forth. I'm not hunting bear, elk. No intention of either at this time. Now the 357 was my preferred size because of twice the shot count per fill and cheaper ammo per shot. If I need to , the 357 will take out a coyote or hog if necessary. I know their is more to this game than this so I'm all ears.
 
On a couple of big bore posts deciding pros and cons of a couple different guns I was researching in 357, more than one member asked why don't I get a 45? Ok, I know very little about projectiles in this range but I'm hearing that 357 guns I was checking out shot 140-160g slugs for 250 FPE. I can only extrapolate that 45 shoots what? 250- 300g? for about 400-450 FPE? Bear with me if I'm off on these values. So I see it as this: what can the 357 ethically kill up to? I would suspect 45 for maybe a big buck or bear, elk so forth. I'm not hunting bear, elk. No intention of either at this time. Now the 357 was my preferred size because of twice the shot count per fill and cheaper ammo per shot. If I need to , the 357 will take out a coyote or hog if necessary. I know their is more to this game than this so I'm all ears.
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@rangur1 These are my thoughts. I believe that the .357 Benjamin Bulldog Platform is capable of taking any animal native to the United States (save bison or bear). A modified Bulldog may be up to the task, but I’m unsure so I’ll let people with more experience in that area chime in. Large animals with long dense fur present an issue of penetration concerning body shots to the vitals - this is my understanding. I’m confident in ethically taking any animal native to Texas with a .357 Bulldog so long as it meets legal regulatory standards in regards to hunting said animal(s).


A .45 caliber airgun, like an Airforce Texan, is going to generate more energy by propelling larger projectiles faster if I’m not mistaken. Which gun and caliber a hunter selects boils down to hunting style (stalking, seated in a blind or tree stand, shooting from a tripod, off hand, posted in a prone position, etc.), more particularly the range at which one is hunting. At least this is my opinion.
 
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My thoughts are largely influenced by my longer experience with powder burners. A bulldog is roughly equivalent to a 38 special both in diameter of projectile and velocity. A 38 special would not be considered adequate for a body shot on a large hog. With a non-expanding projectile it would work for a head shot but then so would a powerful 25 caliber. With a lot of work, a bulldog might get closer to a 357 magnum from a revolver, maybe. Even a 357 magnum round from a rifle is not normally recommended for hogs or deer. Certainly it can work but you would need to be careful with shot placement and projectile. I would not use an expanding projectile because I think it would not penetrate far enough.

A 45 or 50 caliber Airforce rifle can approach the usual 1000 fpe usually used for deer capable. With the right projectile and shot placement is should work fine for hogs or deer but due to both energy and trajectory is more range limited than a much higher velocity powder burner. 

I would not hesitate to shoot a coyote with a bulldog, however. Body or brain. I would expect it to run with a body shot but die as long as it was placed in the front half of the body. 
 
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.35 kindof bridges the gap between .25 and 'BIG' bore ... way i see it .. its got alot of punch for some serious critters and like you said, its cost effective and practical both in pellets and air use to a point .. if i seriously hunted deer or big hogs etc id use a .45 .. its not a plinker though .. .35 you can still play around some with it, and hey if theres a deer outside on your lawn, meat isnt cheapnat the grocerg store these days .. you can bag it with the .35 ..
 
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A bulldog tune can do 300+FPE or 360FPE with a 185g in .357 have folks who have taken 400lb hogs and 12 points heart lung shots at 100yds plus with no runners. With the right tune a 357 at that energy level is more than capable of big game and at distinaces exceeding 150yds. 

Heart lung 85yds clean thru stopped just under skin opposite side.

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While I've not yet had the chance to take big game with either, shooting metallic targets reveals a lot...at least to me. I commonly shoot a series of AR500 targets ranging in size from 2 inch rounds wieghing a few ounces to a large torso shaped target that wieghs 10lb's. I do not own an Airforce rifle, though I am tempted. I have built up all my own rifles from .177 to .458 and all calibers in between using largely Cothran parts on the Disco pattern. My 357 makes right at 230lb/ft of energy using a 127 grain slug and my 458 makes a tad over 400lb/ft of energy using a 350 grain slug...twice the energy of the 357. May not sound like much, but the energy on that 10lb target is VERY noticeable. The 357 gives it a solid ring and swings it around a bit whereas the 458 rings it like a bell and swings it around violently. And the smaller disks will actually swing around the support bar.

Yeah, the 458 gets half the shots as the 357, but who cares? I can get 3 to 5 good shots with the 458 (depending on where I set the pre-load), what more do I need?

If I were going out hunting some large game, and I will, I would use my 458...beyond any shadow of a doubt.

And to me, this is a plinker. I come from the centerfire world and outside of rimfire stuff, my 458 is still cheaper to shoot than any of my powder burners. Plinking is nothing more than bonding with your gun and learning each others strengths.

Chris
 
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Also in regards to the question of ethics, I was re-reading this post the other day and after giving it more thought it seems appropriate to leave the link in this thread. “Ethical Hunting With a Big Bore” by Tom Gaylord
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I would absolutely have read this before I even thought of putting lead to these size animals. It's most revealing aspect was the stopping power these airguns have and the strength of said animals. Quite informative , thank you. Now I'm getting a feel about big bore caliber capabilities. I know I still have a great ways to go. 
 
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While I've not yet had the chance to take big game with either, shooting metallic targets reveals a lot...at least to me. I commonly shoot a series of AR500 targets ranging in size from 2 inch rounds wieghing a few ounces to a large torso shaped target that wieghs 10lb's. I do not own an Airforce rifle, though I am tempted. I have built up all my own rifles from .177 to .458 and all calibers in between using largely Cothran parts on the Disco pattern. My 357 makes right at 230lb/ft of energy using a 127 grain slug and my 458 makes a tad over 400lb/ft of energy using a 350 grain slug...twice the energy of the 357. May not sound like much, but the energy on that 10lb target is VERY noticeable. The 357 gives it a solid ring and swings it around a bit whereas the 458 rings it like a bell and swings it around violently. And the smaller disks will actually swing around the support bar.

Yeah, the 458 gets half the shots as the 357, but who cares? I can get 3 to 5 good shots with the 458 (depending on where I set the pre-load), what more do I need?

If I were going out hunting some large game, and I will, I would use my 458...beyond any shadow of a doubt.

And to me, this is a plinker. I come from the centerfire world and outside of rimfire stuff, my 458 is still cheaper to shoot than any of my powder burners. Plinking is nothing more than bonding with your gun and learning each others strengths.

Chris
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That is a huge difference my man. You do get 3-5 quality shots per fill in 45? That's good. I thought it was more like 2, and the 357 was about 5-6.
 
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its all about shot placement.. im taken good size deer with 120fpe to over 400fpe.. what you get with 357 is a good all around gun from small game to big game just by witching ammo and 357 will have a better b.c for longer range shooting.. the 457 is a great cal and will always do a great job for big game just not the best pick for small game lol..

at the end of the day its all up to you and what you think is best for your tipe of hunting .. asking witch is better is like asking what beer is best cold everyone will say something different
 
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457 was my choice for big bore hunting. Texas requires at least a .30 and 215 fpe which is on the lean side for my liking to take bigger game. At 650 fpe not much will stay standing long and when/if the MOAH ( mother of all hogs) appears, the extra power helps overcome any shot misplacement from the adrenaline. Shot count may be lower but the trade off to me is worth it, knowing there is the added energy and a bigger entrance hole punched. If i were limiting myself to yotes, nutria and maybe some whitetail a .35 would be sufficient but still not my personal choice. IMO its more prudent to have the power and not need it than to be tempted to take a riskier shot and gamble with the animal suffering. That brings up alot of emphasis about making the right decisions in the field and correctly ascessing your own marksmanship abilities. A bad shooter with a bigger gun does not make a better hunter, nor does a top shooter with a smaller caliber make a better hunter. The gun cannot make the call for you to take a shot or not, but it sure can help influence your decision. Theres also another local consideration I took, Texas Hill country is seriously not fun terrain to have to track in, even if only 50 or so yards, so being DRT is a major plus. Just my 2 cents. 
 
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Chepliki hit the nail on the head with 'shot placement'.....i too have taken deer with .30 & .35's

its all about take'n the best shot or letting them walk.

if i can't do it, i won't !!

i also hunt with my 2 .50cals when the time is right.

nothing over 40yrds is my rule.

we hunt from ladders, blinds & tripods on food plots and swamp bottoms.

sometimes its less than 20yrds....just like when we bow hunt.

you gotta be doing something right for that smart whitetail Buck to get that close to you right ??
 
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Here are my thoughts. A .357, not a hollow-point that expands, has a an area of 0.10 square inches (10% of a square inch)—in other words it creates a wound channel of 0.10 sq in. Run the same equation for a.457, and the area is 0.164 sq in—an over 60% area increase! This is a much better wound channel. If the bullet tumbles then it’s even better. 


What about hollow-points? Let’s say they expand 50% on the average. Now the .357 gives us a wound channel of 0.15 sq in, while the .457 gives us a wound channel of .246 sq in—again significant. 


Whyis wound channel so important? Because our airguns don’t kill with static shock like a high-powered rifle does. We want the bullet to cause as much damage penetrating as possible, thus wound channel size. It also helps with a pass-through, giving better blood trails. 


Where the .357 is superior is in the trajectory since it can be faster, and the bullets are lighter, giving us a flatter trajectory. If you need to reach out past 100 yards, then this is an advantage. In my case I would rarely shoot past 100 yards, so I prefer the bigger wound channel of the .457. 
 
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"That is a huge difference my man. You do get 3-5 quality shots per fill in 45? That's good. I thought it was more like 2, and the 357 was about 5-6."

Yeah, my problem is that I'm constantly messing with things, like the pre-tensioner. If I run it all the way in, my shot count of course goes way down, but power goes up...who wants that? If, otoh, I run the tensioner out a few turns, I get more shots, duh, right? But, who wants that? Less power?!? Why?

The fact that I had Don make the longest airtube he has ever made (his words) for my 45 helps a bit too, 33 inches. I'm actually quite pleased with both of those rifles, they do just what I wanted. But, as I mentioned, I am sorely tempted buy an Airforce rifle...something like 50 to 100% more power than mine make?!? How?!? Bigger valve? Inline air path? Larger air supply? Sooner or later, I'm gonna buy one and find out.

But, all kidding aside, yeah, 3 to 5 good shots, not full power, but still absolutely lethal.

Chris 
 
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Also in regards to the question of ethics, I was re-reading this post the other day and after giving it more thought it seems appropriate to leave the link in this thread. “Ethical Hunting With a Big Bore” by Tom Gaylord
Click to expand...

I would absolutely have read this before I even thought of putting lead to these size animals. It's most revealing aspect was the stopping power these airguns have and the strength of said animals. Quite informative , thank you. Now I'm getting a feel about big bore caliber capabilities. I know I still have a great ways to go.
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@Rangur1 That's really great and it's part of why we have these discussions. Since my last post I took time to view the post in the link below. After viewing I found it to be appropriate in corresponding to your recent big-bore threads and extremely helpful in the hunting with big-bores discourse, especially for members who learn better from hearing as opposed to reading. Again, same topic, same author/speaker. I really enjoyed this presentation. I hope you do as well. https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/the-future-of-big-bore-airguns-tnt/?referrer=1
 
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I have been wanting a AAA slayer in .357 for years. But the lack of info from AAA on how they get the advertised power levels keeps me away for the price; I want to know what tune and what projectile they are using to get the 950 FPS at the energy they are telling people with the 6 regulated shots. Fact is you can't get it and you can't talk to them either. So it reminds me of Jefferson, no contact no buy. Turns out they never delivered Jefferson never delivered, big shock. Did AAA deliver? Well where are the rave review and posts on it? Yep, exactly. So I still wait. I really like the theory of a ground up slayer build to be a true big bore, not a 30 cal pushed up to a .35 or bigger. But man, some customer service would be great. That reliability of help when needed has to come with the price tag. 

Kind of reminds me of LCS. They are so secretive and want everyone to go through AOA. Come on LCS give us schematics and O-rings / fastener lists! Give us the basic directions to repair and enjoy the full potential of the rifle. We paid for it!! Never spending another dime on sending in an LCS unless its a catastrophic issue. So much wasted money on shipping unnecessarily. While I am ranting, lol, hey RTI update you Schematics! pretty please. 
 
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