30-Yard Challenge

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JimD said:
Ed,

I especially like your Cayden scores. Nice to see someone with a similar priced gun shooting some really good scores. I've looked at those little laboratory lifts but not purchased one yet. This is what I use on my P35s. I have Uncle Mike's type flush sling swivel stud bases on my guns because I like to hunt with them. My monopod is just 3 couplers for 1/4 all thread welded together with the top ground to fit into the sling base and a carriage bolt in it. I put a brass knurled nut on the carriage bolt with a few drops of thread lock on it so I can easily adjust the length and thus the elevation of my shots.

Jim

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Thanks Jim, nice work on that monopod!

I actually bought the .177 Akela and .22 Cayden as guns I would take apart and learn “airgunsmithing”.

Both provided a poor shooting experience when I received them - both purchased direct from Crosman on sale. I think the Akela was $350 and the Cayden $450.

The rifles both had declining shot strings and poor efficiency. I didn’t shoot them much as they were also loud due to wasted air.

I deduced that they were oversprung and did extensive work cutting down the hammersprings to optimize - over on the GTA forum.

I was stunned at the results I obtained. I believe that my Akela is a bit more accurate than the Cayden, but I don’t usually shoot the Akela much in the 30 yard challenge as it has just a 14x scope on it.

These Craftsmen Series will shoot with anything - once spring is cut down. If I was only going to do backyard shooting out to 45-50 yards, I ask myself why I have thousands invested in FX, RTI, Weihrauch and Daystate rifles. It’s actually an inexpensive hobby compared to say owning a classic car(s) - and I have a good yard for shooting.

Its also more satisfying to take a modestly priced rifle and use elbow grease to make it a nice shooter.
 
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Hi Guys,
A really nice day today (after a less than stellar weekend) so I decided to shoot a couple of more cards with the Crown. Light breeze from my 2 o'clock, but otherwise perfect. Shot two cards - one good and one sort of OK. Here is the good one - 199 with 11X so it can replace my previous best card.



30 yd Challange 4-10-23.jpg

Took a picture of my backyard range. I really need a more sturdy bench. Planning on adding a deck this summer. I will have to build in a bench and disguise it as something else to keep my other half happy. Maybe a fancy, sturdy plant stand?

Cheers,
Greg

Backyard Range.jpg
 
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Shot a bunch of cards today.

It was breezy. Worse yet, at lunchtime it was constantly changing directions. However, it was a beautiful warm day here in the 60s.

I shot 191 6x, 181 7x and 187 10x with the RTI Prophet Performance using .177 barrel. I used 2 types of pellets: Apolo Air Boss 9g and H&N Baracuda FT 9.57g (a very high quality pellet).

Finally I decided that if you can’t beat the wind, join it.

So I shot 2 more targets with the RTI using the 9.57g and 2 with the Dreamline using FX 10.3g and AA 10.3g.

I submit the 196 14x with the RTI Prophet for the leaderboard. I’m proud of this target because rarely did I shoot at the bullseye. I was constantly adjusting to shoot at the number 8, 1/2 way between the 8&9 etc - depending on how the wind felt.

The 194 12x that I shot right after the 196 was actually a better target. The misses weren’t misses, I hit the left little number “8” a couple times and the “7” - and I was aiming there to compensate for the wind - but it momentarily died down. Even my single sighter was an X, lol.

The Dreamline 194 12x could have been a record for me with that rifle (currently 195 9x on leaderboard), but I got burned by a big wind gust on Target #4. I needed to be more patient and let the wind calm down.

I’ve been holding both rifles like I’m holding a baby chick, and trying to “feel” a “balance” as I release the shot - I seem to be more consistent with this light hold. It’s tougher with the Dreamline because FX trigger design sucks. Even though I polished it I can’t adjust it as light as I need it. The RTI trigger is amazing.

I’m showing some pictures of typical groups I’m getting with both the Prophet and Dreamline with various pellets. They are tiny groups at 30 yards.

It seems ashame now that I’ve got the Prophet dialed in with its .177 barrel to pull the barrel and swap in the .25 LR polygonal barrel, but that’s what I’m gonna do - going to my brothers Friday to practice at 100 yards. I’ve never shot further than 60 - but the crazy Sightron 45x target scope should help. Will also bring my Prophet.22 LR and perhaps the Daystate Wolverine R HP .22. So all 3 LW polygonal slow twist barrels could see action at 100 yards.

“Join the wind”, lol

Ed

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NAProf said:
Hi Guys,
A really nice day today (after a less than stellar weekend) so I decided to shoot a couple of more cards with the Crown. Light breeze from my 2 o'clock, but otherwise perfect. Shot two cards - one good and one sort of OK. Here is the good one - 199 with 11X so it can replace my previous best card.



View attachment 347292
Took a picture of my backyard range. I really need a more sturdy bench. Planning on adding a deck this summer. I will have to build in a bench and disguise it as something else to keep my other half happy. Maybe a fancy, sturdy plant stand?

Cheers,
Greg

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Hello @NAProf

Great shooting Greg but hey, I love your set up and scenery, what a great view.

ThomasT
 
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EPG said:
Shot a bunch of cards today.

It was breezy. Worse yet, at lunchtime it was constantly changing directions. However, it was a beautiful warm day here in the 60s.

I shot 191 6x, 181 7x and 187 10x with the RTI Prophet Performance using .177 barrel. I used 2 types of pellets: Apolo Air Boss 9g and H&N Baracuda FT 9.57g (a very high quality pellet).

Finally I decided that if you can’t beat the wind, join it.

So I shot 2 more targets with the RTI using the 9.57g and 2 with the Dreamline using FX 10.3g and AA 10.3g.

I submit the 196 14x with the RTI Prophet for the leaderboard. I’m proud of this target because rarely did I shoot at the bullseye. I was constantly adjusting to shoot at the number 8, 1/2 way between the 8&9 etc - depending on how the wind felt.

The 194 12x that I shot right after the 196 was actually a better target. The misses weren’t misses, I hit the left little number “8” a couple times and the “7” - and I was aiming there to compensate for the wind - but it momentarily died down. Even my single sighter was an X, lol.

The Dreamline 194 12x could have been a record for me with that rifle (currently 195 9x on leaderboard), but I got burned by a big wind gust on Target #4. I needed to be more patient and let the wind calm down.

I’ve been holding both rifles like I’m holding a baby chick, and trying to “feel” a “balance” as I release the shot - I seem to be more consistent with this light hold. It’s tougher with the Dreamline because FX trigger design sucks. Even though I polished it I can’t adjust it as light as I need it. The RTI trigger is amazing.

I’m showing some pictures of typical groups I’m getting with both the Prophet and Dreamline with various pellets. They are tiny groups at 30 yards.

It seems ashame now that I’ve got the Prophet dialed in with its .177 barrel to pull the barrel and swap in the .25 LR polygonal barrel, but that’s what I’m gonna do - going to my brothers Friday to practice at 100 yards. I’ve never shot further than 60 - but the crazy Sightron 45x target scope should help. Will also bring my Prophet.22 LR and perhaps the Daystate Wolverine R HP .22. So all 3 LW polygonal slow twist barrels could see action at 100 yards.

“Join the wind”, lol

Ed

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Hello @EPG

More good cards and a lot of effort on your part. I really like the H&N, they shoot great. Hope you do well on the 100-yard shoot and take some photos.

ThomasT
 
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Ed,

My P35s have needed tuning too but it sounds like your Crosmans (Krals) needed more. The P35 trigger out of the box has a pretty heavy first stage that adds to the second stage trigger. And there is creep. But it is super easy to back the first stage off to nothing and to decrease sear engagement to eliminate the creep and make it under 1 lb. But it stays somewhat inconsistent. Varies several ounces shot to shot. So not ideal but quite usable.

I had to also adjust the hammer spring to better match the regulator setting. On my 25 the hammer spring was too light and it caused the first shot velocity to be different from the rest of the string. But once it was set at about the point that gives maximum velocity, the regulator works great. The barrel is not so good, however, but I am working on that. The 22 was the best balanced out of the box and shot the best out of the box. The 177 sounds like it was more like your Crosmans. The hammer spring was hugely too strong for the regulator setting and could not be turned down to get it in balance. So I pulled the spring out and cut it down a little. That let me get it balanced. Velocity is the same but the ES and std deviation have improved. Last year the best I shot with this gun was a 184. This year it has done a 193. So clipping the spring seems to have helped it significantly too.

I was looking hard at a Crown when I saw the P35 and decided to give it a try. My desire for a "better" PCP has gone down a lot since I've been shooting my P35s. Like your Crosmans, they shoot better than they probably should for what I paid for them. It took some tuning to get them to this point but that process is part of the fun.

Jim
 
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JimD said:
Ed,

My P35s have needed tuning too but it sounds like your Crosmans (Krals) needed more. The P35 trigger out of the box has a pretty heavy first stage that adds to the second stage trigger. And there is creep. But it is super easy to back the first stage off to nothing and to decrease sear engagement to eliminate the creep and make it under 1 lb. But it stays somewhat inconsistent. Varies several ounces shot to shot. So not ideal but quite usable.

I had to also adjust the hammer spring to better match the regulator setting. On my 25 the hammer spring was too light and it caused the first shot velocity to be different from the rest of the string. But once it was set at about the point that gives maximum velocity, the regulator works great. The barrel is not so good, however, but I am working on that. The 22 was the best balanced out of the box and shot the best out of the box. The 177 sounds like it was more like your Crosmans. The hammer spring was hugely too strong for the regulator setting and could not be turned down to get it in balance. So I pulled the spring out and cut it down a little. That let me get it balanced. Velocity is the same but the ES and std deviation have improved. Last year the best I shot with this gun was a 184. This year it has done a 193. So clipping the spring seems to have helped it significantly too.

I was looking hard at a Crown when I saw the P35 and decided to give it a try. My desire for a "better" PCP has gone down a lot since I've been shooting my P35s. Like your Crosmans, they shoot better than they probably should for what I paid for them. It took some tuning to get them to this point but that process is part of the fun.

Jim
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Jim,

Its even more fun when you improved your rifle like you did with your P35s.

If your Use Case is target shooting, my experience tells me that you can do great my taking a mid range rifle (like Crosman Craftsman Series) and modifying, tuning, adjusting and polishing until it feels perfect for you.

Even if you buy a “premium” air rifle, you have to work on them to get them to shoot the way you want.

Love this 30 yard challenge - teaches you WAY more than shooting groups ever could.

-Ed
 
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tcarlson777 said:
@blacksmith304 - Thanks for taking a shot at this challenge. Let us know if you have any other questions.
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Yes sir will do. It may be a week or so till im ready. Just ordered a Panthera, and my crown has a leak. I am waiting for the valve seal tool from bangel and kirkwood to get here so I can fix it.
 
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I've found the 30 yard challenge to be a great way to sort out which pellets shoot best in my guns.

I don't have anything better than my previous to send but shot a couple more tonight. The lake is like a sheet of glass, no wind. But my shooting was just OK. My first card broke my string of 3 over 190 with a 188 7X. I used what I think are the gun's favorite, H&N Baracuda Match in 4.52 head size. It is the same pellet I shot a 193 with. I was messing around trying to decide if I wanted to hold just below the 10 ring or right on the X. Every time I was high or low I adjusted the next shot. Bad strategy. I shot another where I just held on the X and shot a 191 8 or 9 X (don't remember and too lazy to get up and look). Still fun to send a little lead down range. My best card with this gun last year was a 184. Nice to have it shooting better.
 
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I swapped the .177 barrel out of my Prophet Performance V1 and swapped in the .25 Long Range barrel.

Going to shoot 100 yards for the first time Friday.

It quickly dialed in at 30 yards, but I had to swap my nice mild custom spring I made for .177 back to the stock RTI stiffer spring. I left out the Delrin spring guide, so its a bit milder than the full stock spring setup.

I raised my regulator pressure to 100bar and it quickly was slinging 25.4g pellets at 900fps - with ease.

I put a huge Neil Clague moderator on it, its quiet at the muzzle but the rifle is much more jumpy pushing so much air.

Perhaps a higher reg pressure will calm her down?

She grouped one hole at 30 and 40 yards, but I miss my .177 already…. She is now a beast!

-Ed

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rc4fun said:
@tommyb & @ThomasT I'm starting to to think I need to start weighing pellets and be more picky. To get 200 and 200 Pro takes effort.
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Hey again @rc4fun

A lot of folks do sort and weigh there pellets and it appears to do a lot of good. I tried it for a very short time and decided just to shoot from the Tin. I did spend a lot of time detailing my rifle ( polishing the bore, shooting a ton of various pellets ), and that has done more good for my results. My biggest improvement has been almost eliminating those dog-gone fliers that just kill an otherwise good score.

ThomasT
 
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