3 stage vs 4 stage hand pumps

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jdanvers

jdanvers

Member
Jul 7, 2019
915
303
South Central Upstate NY, United States
Purely out of curiosity - would a 4 stage hand pump be noticeably "easier" to pump a 250 bar gun vs. a 3 stage? Readers digest - when I bought my AA S510 a couple of years ago - it came as a kit from PA and included a Hill MK4 hand pump. The thing works quite well - but is also quite a workout. I've recently become aware of "4 stage" hand pumps and after some googling I (now) know that my hill is "only" a 3 stage unit.
 
Never had the need to pump that high so I wouldn't know but it's rated to 4500psi. All I know is I grab the Chinese pump if my tank is low instead of my Hill Mk3 because it's much easier for me to pump. I'm probably not as strong nor fit as you nor look forward to heavy cardio vascular exercise as much as you do. I'd rather have an easy time pumping when needed so I can concentrate more on shooting. YO!
 
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I use an inexpensive Harbor Freight compressor with regulator to boost the input pressure to the hill pump. I vary the boost pressure from 60 PSI to 10 psi depending on how high of a pressure I need. I use a kilowatt meter on the AC line to measure the amperage used by the motor. The 1 horsepower motor is rated for about 9 amps. So adjust the regulator for about 8 amps to not overdo it. The output of the Harbor Freight feeds through particle filter water trap and a desiccant filter then into the MK3. I'm still on my original O-rings. If I push it maybe I can go for two minutes to session but maybe you'll burn out the O-rings quicker. I never even break a sweat.



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I use an inexpensive Harbor Freight compressor with regulator to boost the input pressure to the hill pump. I vary the boost pressure from 60 PSI to 10 psi depending on how high of a pressure I need. I use a kilowatt meter on the AC line to measure the amperage used by the motor. The 1 horsepower motor is rated for about 9 amps. So adjust the regulator for about 8 amps to not overdo it. The output of the Harbor Freight feeds through particle filter water trap and a desiccant filter then into the MK3. I'm still on my original O-rings. If I push it maybe I can go for two minutes to session but maybe you'll burn out the O-rings quicker. I never even break a sweat.



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Match. Point. Game. That's awesome!


 
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I was thinking it was 4-1-2020...my Hill been doing the job for over 4 years,no problem,,,but I only fill to 3000psi...I can 40-50 pumps at a time,use to do 20 then 20 and so one..usually takes at least 80 pumps,but most of the time 100 to 120 pumps to fill from pretty much empty...yea the pump can get pretty warm if pumping too fast....
 
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I doubt if I can make a dime making these. Think it weighs about 130 lb. How do you ship that cheaply? Also the parts costs are expensive though less so in quantity take the motor was like $100 the reduction gearbox maybe $120 Harbor Freight compressor $40 the desiccant filter $25 the other filter $20 steel tubing $30 Rose joint $10 pillow blocks $10 plus hill pump and other accessory parts. Custom machined crank arm. Then you have to add on the labor on top of that. Probably better off buying a daystate 110 volt compressor.

I think I can keep this running for quite a long time by changing just o'ring. And it pumps are pretty fast not counting the time you need to let it cool down. But I doubt that a $40 Chinese pump can work motorized without self-destructing. You have to hand it to Hill building a durable pump that can hold up to much more abuse of than a person would ever do. My estimation is a takes over 200 lb to push this pump to 4500 PSI.

I don't know how dry the air really is but when I hand pumped each time I opened the bleed valve gray sludge came out (mixture of grease, water and I presume o-ring wear particles). This is after just 50 pumps or so. Now using a large desiccant filter under modest pressure I never get any discharge from the valve and this is after even more than 200 stokes as I don't open the bleed valve between cool down time. I don't like to waste time/stokes pressurizing the hose and other plumbing.


 
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I doubt if I can make a dime making these. Think it weighs about 130 lb. How do you ship that cheaply? Also the parts costs are expensive though less so in quantity take the motor was like $100 the reduction gearbox maybe $120 Harbor Freight compressor $40 the desiccant filter $25 the other filter $20 steel tubing $30 Rose joint $10 pillow blocks $10 plus hill pump and other accessory parts. Custom machined crank arm. Then you have to add on the labor on top of that. Probably better off buying a daystate 110 volt compressor.

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This is the route I went -- after I had priced everything out and the potential that as a hobby welder I would produce non-structual welds I picked up the AirForce E-Pump which effectively hand grenaded itself. I call it the E-Chump, it's overpriced export junk. Went with the LC-110 after a decision of "go big or get out".

I am super impressed with your setup above. I ended up giving away my Hill MK3 to a member in need on the forum but your machine is something I very much wanted to build. If your willing to share part information it might help future builders. I really struggled with motor selection, motor mount, gear box, etc. I assumed it was because I lacked some key knowledge that may be part of a trade -- engineering/fabrication.

All in all, VERY nice work!
 
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@Genesis -- ahh! At long lost - an answer to my original question. ( lol!! ) But thats ok as @BlackIce took the stage and stole the show - and what a show indeed! lol!! ( think Hendrix showing up at a Cream gig - is that what it was? - and Clapton nearly in tears backstage in disbelief - "... is he really THAT good?! " )

Thank you - I nearly pulled the trigger on buying one BUT based on this -- I don't need or want slower. My current 3 stage is already slow enough - although it does provide a little 'workout' so perhaps there is at least a 'health' aspect / benefit to it. lol


 
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But my Hill Mk3 so far has been reliable pumping to 4500 PSI.....
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The spec says 3300 psi : https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hill_Pump_MK3_Up_to_3300_PSI/3714
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That's right. In spite of the specs I'm going to 4500 psi without any problems. I estimate the force needed to do so is more than 200 lbs (170 lbs theoretical at 100% efficiency) and without a motor you would need to weigh over 250 lbs and be in good shape and to do it without killing yourself.

That says a lot about the quality of the MK3 and how over engineered it is.


 
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