Skout .25 Skout Epoch

[Stubbers]

No, it would actually be VERY difficult to detect with any traditional leak detection methods. These leaks tend to be VERY slow leaking only about 5-10 psi per hour. That rate is insufficient to blow soap bubbles or move any but the lightest monofilament.

I've had my fair share of leaks similar to this with peek poppets, a dunk under water (more challenging with an electronic gun but doable if done with caution) has always revealed themselves with a tiny bubble escaping after a moment or two. No real risk when you only dunk a section of the gun at the time, in my instance the tip of the barrel, or with the barrel removed, the very top most portion of the air tube where the exit port terminates, meaning only 1-2mm of the gun is exposed to under water conditions.

-Matt

 

[Centercut]

Hi mike, it may feel like they are parallel threads, but I can assure you they are not. BSPP and NPT theads are close enough in pitch to easily be mistaken for each other. I just checked here and a BSPP gauge will thread in, but for the first few threads it is a looser fit, and then gets tighter near the end. For the record Skout does not recommend trying to use anything BSPP on the Epoch. All gauge ports as well as fill nipple and bleeder valve ports are 1/8-27 NPT threaded.

View attachment 399865

Understood. I am a Nuclear Engineer by trade, so have an ok understanding of this type of thing.
The factory gauges thread in all the way to the bottom easily. The 1/8 BSP gauges thread in exactly the same.
Try it when you get my gun next week, you’ll be surprised I’m sure.
There is no difference threading either the factory gauges or the 1/8 BSP gauges I have into the female portion.
Trust me, I was stumped. With NPT you can almost always see the taper, and when threaded in the turning gets tighter after a couple turns so that the threads seal with the Teflon tape.
Both factory and 1/8 BSP gauges easily bottom out in the female threaded portion of the gauge port. I’ve never seen a properly threaded NPT connection not get harder to turn after a few turns.
Doesn’t matter much in the big picture of things, I’ve just never seen “tapered” threads like this in my 45 years in Engineering….
Maybe you can help me understand why tapered threads were used in this application when the industry standard is 1/8 BSP for gauges.

 

[Stubbers]

I've never seen a taper thread that wasn't measurable with calipers, opposed to simply comparing them by threading them by hand? Not saying you're wrong but you should verify with calipers.

My 1/8" NPT gauge in front of me starts @ .38" and tapers to .4" which adheres to the standard, seen below @ Outside Dia. and Effective Thread External Diameter.

-Matt

 

[Centercut]

I've never seen a taper thread that wasn't measurable with calipers, opposed to simply comparing them by threading them by hand? Not saying you're wrong but you should verify with calipers.

My 1/8" NPT gauge in front of me starts @ .38" and tapers to .4" which adheres to the standard, seen below @ Outside Dia. and Effective Thread External Diameter.

View attachment 399917



-Matt

Matt, it’s not important. It was just a conversation between Luke and I. Appreciate your input.
Both can be made to seal with an X ring at the bottom. Or with the factory gauges Teflon tape (black) to seal.
If I replace the gauges with higher quality like Wika I’ll use 1/8 NPT as the factory recommends. No worries. You learn something new everyday…

 

[Stubbers]

Matt, it’s not important. It was just a conversation between Luke and I. Appreciate your input.
Both can be made to deal with X ring at the bottom. Or with the factory gauges Teflon tape (black) to seal.
If I replace the gauges with higher quality like Wika I’ll use 1/8 NPT as the factory recommends. No worries. You learn something new everyday…

Your previous reply implied it was some sort of deal so I was just trying to help get to the bottom of it and have a definitive answer.

.02" is not a lot of taper and threading in a bspp gauge into a bspt or npt gauge certainly can muck em up (ask me how I know ), but as you said getting a proper seal there with either an x-ring or thick o-ring certainly shouldn't be an issue, and you may have to moving forward if the internal threads were compromised, unless that is serviced/repaired.

-Matt

 

[Centercut]

Your previous reply implied it was some sort of deal so I was just trying to help get to the bottom of it and have a definitive answer.

.02" is not a lot of taper and threading in a bspp gauge into a bspt or npt gauge certainly can muck em up (ask me how I know ), but as you said getting a proper seal there with either an x-ring or thick o-ring certainly shouldn't be an issue, and you may have to moving forward if the internal threads were compromised, unless that is serviced/repaired.

-Matt

Gotcha. Everything was fitted finger tight. Pretty hard to damage threads like that unless you’re Iron Man.

 

[Stubbers]

Gotcha. Everything was fitted finger tight. Pretty hard to damage threads like that unless you’re Iron Man.

"The factory gauges thread in all the way to the bottom easily. The 1/8 BSP gauges thread in exactly the same."

I'd be concerned that a BSP threading to bottom out definitely mucked up the integrity of the internally tapered threads but as I said easy fix even if you did happen to stretch em. Luckily 1/8 bspp major diameter is only .383" and 1/8 bspt is .383" as well, only 1/8" npt would suffer minor damage.

-Matt

 

[Centercut]

Can we please stop with the thread discussion? Thanks.

 

[Centercut]

The latest "How To" from Skout.

Joe, I have to admit, these Skout videos on disassembly and assembly are the best on the market. Even better than the Ernest Rowe videos with FX... Great job Skout!

 

[markT]

Can we please stop with the thread discussion? Thanks.

Too bad I can’t like this more than once.

 

[weevil]

Too bad I can’t like this more than once.

Someone is on a repair advice rampage today. Scouts, Leshiys, LCS, Hatsans, even a bit of legal advice for Utah Airguns. Not sure who it is due to a block but can see the missing posts!

 

[Centercut]

You can easily see what your blocker says. Just sign out of AGN then go back in as a visitor. You’ll see everything. Easy day.

 

[LukeSowinski]

Understood. I am a Nuclear Engineer by trade, so have an ok understanding of this type of thing.
The factory gauges thread in all the way to the bottom easily. The 1/8 BSP gauges thread in exactly the same.
Try it when you get my gun next week, you’ll be surprised I’m sure.
There is no difference threading either the factory gauges or the 1/8 BSP gauges I have into the female portion.
Trust me, I was stumped. With NPT you can almost always see the taper, and when threaded in the turning gets tighter after a couple turns so that the threads seal with the Teflon tape.
Both factory and 1/8 BSP gauges easily bottom out in the female threaded portion of the gauge port. I’ve never seen a properly threaded NPT connection not get harder to turn after a few turns.
Doesn’t matter much in the big picture of things, I’ve just never seen “tapered” threads like this in my 45 years in Engineering….
Maybe you can help me understand why tapered threads were used in this application when the industry standard is 1/8 BSP for gauges.

Mike, I am interested in inspecting the threads next week. To ensure there is no misunderstanding for everyone, as the person who designs, machines, and tests the Epoch components the threads are 1/8-27 NPT threads. These threads were chosen as they are the industry standard for paintball, where we have over 30 years of experience. This is similar to us also choosing PSI as our pressure unit because it is what we also use in paintball. We check the threads on the bodies using a plug go/no go gage to ensure they are correct as well. I hope this info clears some things up from one engineer to another.

 

[Centercut]

Mike, I am interested in inspecting the threads next week. To ensure there is no misunderstanding for everyone, as the person who designs, machines, and tests the Epoch components the threads are 1/8-27 NPT threads. These threads were chosen as they are the industry standard for paintball, where we have over 30 years of experience. This is similar to us also choosing PSI as our pressure unit because it is what we also use in paintball. We check the threads on the bodies using a plug go/no go gage to ensure they are correct as well. I hope this info clears some things up from one engineer to another.

Thanks. Appreciate the info. I’m going to look at it one more time before I ship the gun back, but that’ll be Friday. Your explanation makes sense, I know nothing about paintball, only that most Airguns use BSP and bar vice NPT and psi. In the big scheme of things, it doesn’t make any difference, like scopes with MIL or MOA. Both are just units of measure.

 

[27t.b]

Hi,

I am too! The epoch is a blast to shoot! We are currently beginning the development phase for the next Skout model! Shedding some weight is definitely on the agenda for a version of the next one. If anyone has anything they would like to see in the next version please let us know so we can consider it!

A higher pic. rail, better balance. And a smother cocking lever. Not quite as sensitive trigger.

 

[markT]

A higher pic. rail, better balance. And a smother cocking lever. Not quite as sensitive trigger.

Hi,

I am too! The epoch is a blast to shoot! We are currently beginning the development phase for the next Skout model! Shedding some weight is definitely on the agenda for a version of the next one. If anyone has anything they would like to see in the next version please let us know so we can consider it!

Why not start a new thread and request this information? Isn't that a standard or maybe a rule?
Maybe one has been started already?

 

[Centercut]

Why not start a new thread and request this information? Isn't that a standard or maybe a rule?
Maybe one has been started already?

Good idea. My biggest suggestion would be something like a magnet or detention to hold the cocking lever open when you cock the gun but leave the lever back. That would make the gun much more pleasurable to shoot when moving around and shooting.

 

[Centercut]

Mike, I am interested in inspecting the threads next week. To ensure there is no misunderstanding for everyone, as the person who designs, machines, and tests the Epoch components the threads are 1/8-27 NPT threads. These threads were chosen as they are the industry standard for paintball, where we have over 30 years of experience. This is similar to us also choosing PSI as our pressure unit because it is what we also use in paintball. We check the threads on the bodies using a plug go/no go gage to ensure they are correct as well. I hope this info clears some things up from one engineer to another.

Luke, after returning to San Diego and looking more closely, I will admit I was wrong. I assumed because the BSP gauges fit so well with an X ring it wasn’t tapered, but it is. My apologies. Yes, the three gauges and ports on the Skout Epoch are tapered NPT threads that seal with tape on the threads.

 

[Centercut]

I received a shipping label from Skout and shipped the gun back last Friday. They received it yesterday (Wednesday). Hopefully I can get it back for the next weekend (not this weekend of course). It had a slow leak that I couldn't find, and the LP reg stopped working after I replaced the outer Orings on the HP reg due to a leak...
FYI, there are FIVE on the Team that have Skouts. Scott @Scotchmo bought a .30 caliber long barrel, Augie @Bigragu bought a .30 caliber long barrel with the $$$ he won for 2nd place EBR 2023 Sportsman 100Y BR, I have the .25 short barrel I won at the EBR 2023 raffle, Caleb @okieairgunner and Derrick @zx10wall recently got .25 caliber short barrel Skout Demo guns to test for competition in the 2024 season.
I'm going to start a new thread once I get mine back, and we'll all post on it of our experiences (good, bad, or indifferent) with the Skout Epoch.
PS., despite the issue with the air leaks, I like the gun and it's a shooter.... .25 Heavy Mk2 at 920 fps is what I was shooting...

 

[Motorhead]

Good idea. My biggest suggestion would be something like a magnet or detention to hold the cocking lever open when you cock the gun but leave the lever back. That would make the gun much more pleasurable to shoot when moving around and shooting.

That idea and "HOW TOO" was shared with them MANY months ago. I played with the idea and came up with a super slick miens using Rare Earth magnets that SKOUT is all ready using threw out the EPOCH platform.
1 magnet on the tail end of shuttle linkage between probe holder screws, 2nd magnet within the top frame. This HOLDS the cocking lever open even when muzzle is pointed down. Yet when cocking you really don't even notice the slight bump of magnets attraction at end of lever travel.