HW/Weihrauch .25 HW 97 - accuracy ?

[azscot]

Hi-
I'm interested in the accuracy of .25 caliber HW 97s. Not the best groups, but average groups that owners are getting.

My rifle has a Vortek spring and seal, I'm shooting JSB Exact Diabolo, 25.39 grs at 25 meters. I'm getting mainly 1/2" (12mm) groups with 2 or 3 touching, then a couple 1/4" to 1/2" away. I occasionally have a 4 shot group about 1/4" with a single flyer.
Since I'm getting the flyers I figure it's me rather than the rifle. I'm working on various holds. Right now, holding the butt of the stock slightly firmly and holding the grip firmly but not tight enough to get any tremors or tightness. I tried a loose hold against my shoulder and a loose hold on the grip and the groups were larger.

My understanding is that .177s are the most accurate at this range and shorter, and the accuracy goes down at the caliber goes up. Is this correct?

Thanks,

Scot

 

[Mycapt65]

Scot your accuracy is fine for 25m in any caliber. It's a piston pellet gun. They're tricky to shoot and flyers are a part of life. I'd be happy if all my guns shot that way. As long as the flyers aren't an inch away. Please remember a lot of what you see on the net is cherry picked groups and the videos are often highly edited. Averaging 3/4 inch or 19mm at 25m is pretty acceptable unless you're shooting competitively.

Cherry picking and lying about group sizes is a problem across all shooting forums. I think it's terrible because it gives new shooters unreasonable expectations. It can frustrate them right out of shooting sports because they trying to match BS. Sure there are some great shooters that will have truly amazing results but that's easier to understand than everyone but me has amazing results.

Rant over. Anyway stock screws tight? How long has it been since the gun was tuned? Have you tried different pellets? Do you own a Chrono? If so what's your results across a ten shot string?

 

[maxtrouble]

I have a HW97k .20 caliber. I get the best groups with the front of the rifle stock resting on a sand bag with a smooth cotton cloth on top to provide a slippery surface.. i lightly hold the rifle behind the bag resting my hand on the bag. I have a light hold on the pistol grip using my thumb and trigger finger to squeeze the trigger. I exhale and shoot at the bottom of my exhale. I shoot at 55 yards and can get a one inch group when I am in the zone but mostly try for minute of can accuracy. Springers are not the most accurate but they are the most fun to shoot.

 

[crowski]

Small world. I just finished my 97 .25 to be my next tree rat greeter. Replaced the 97 .20, another smokin gun.
This is 25 shots with the .25 at 30 yds. The hole is 3/8 in. 2 days ago.

I’ve adopted Maxtrouble’s cloth.
‘My 77 .25 is similar. “Good enough for the girls I go out with”
One of these two will get a new spring and piston seal this winter. Crow

 

[azscot]

Scot your accuracy is fine for 25m in any caliber. It's a piston pellet gun. They're tricky to shoot and flyers are a part of life.....



Rant over. Anyway stock screws tight? How long has it been since the gun was tuned? Have you tried different pellets? Do you own a Chrono? If so what's your results across a ten shot string?

Thanks for the reply! I've been looking for a point of reference other than the single hole 10 shot groups on Youtube. I've checked the stock screws, the rifle has a few hundred pellets through it since I installed the Vortek kit, and I've tried about 10 different pellets, mostly H&N and JSB, & some other recommended brands. The JSB exact 25.39gr and Exact Heavy 33gr are the most consistently accurate so I've settled on them. I haven't chronographed it for a long time so I do need to do that again.

Half inch groups are all I really need for the kind of informal shooting I do, no formal target shooting. Glad to know that I don't have a dud rifle or terrible shooting habits!

Scot

 

[azscot]

I have a HW97k .20 caliber. I get the best groups with the front of the rifle stock resting on a sand bag with a smooth cotton cloth on top to provide a slippery surface.. i lightly hold the rifle behind the bag resting my hand on the bag. I have a light hold on the pistol grip using my thumb and trigger finger to squeeze the trigger. I exhale and shoot at the bottom of my exhale. I shoot at 55 yards and can get a one inch group when I am in the zone but mostly try for minute of can accuracy. Springers are not the most accurate but they are the most fun to shoot.

I'm shooting off a sand-filled front and rear rest. I'll try the cotton cloth and hold you suggested.
As a former powder burner, 1 MOA, an inch at 100 yds, is the gold standard for hunting rifles, not many can reliably get that. I guess I was expecting too much from a springer.
I bought a large caliber (.357) PCP and have gone back to springers because of the cost of ammo and the extra equipment (compressor, air tank) required that was a constant source of trouble and maintenance. It was fun when it all was working but the springers are reliable and no hassle. Plus a bit of exercise.

Thanks, Scot

 

[azscot]

Small world. I just finished my 97 .25 to be my next tree rat greeter. Replaced the 97 .20, another smokin gun.
This is 25 shots with the .25 at 30 yds. The hole is 3/8 in. 2 days ago.
‘My 77 .25 is similar. “Good enough for the girls I go out with”
One of these two will get a new spring and piston seal this winter. Crow

That's fantastic.

 

[Mycapt65]

Scot if you get 2 MOA from a springer past 25 yards you're doing just fine. Occasionally you may do 1 MOA but it'd be rare and worth hanging on the fridge. If you're familiar and realistic about the limitations of rimfire, springers are sort of the same thing. The limitations of the ammo quality plus other variables on both require a sense of humor. Springers need a little more patience to get right, but they won't match a good 22LR. Much less centerfire rifles. Don't get discouraged.

 

[azscot]

Scot if you get 2 MOA from a springer past 25 yards you're doing just fine. Occasionally you may do 1 MOA but it'd be rare and worth hanging on the fridge. If you're familiar and realistic about the limitations of rimfire, springers are sort of the same thing. The limitations of the ammo quality plus other variables on both require a sense of humor. Springers need a little more patience to get right, but they won't match a good 22LR. Much less centerfire rifles. Don't get discouraged.

Thanks for the reply and reassurance. As I said, I'm a former powder burner and reloader, so I'm familiar with how much ammo, stock bedding, parallax, etc. affect accuracy. You're right about .22 accuracy, only the best target rifles and ammunition will do 1 MOA.
It's just frustrating to have 4 shots in 1/4" at 25 meters and the 5th one is 1/2" away! I guess if I shoot long enough I'll get all 5 in 1 big hole, and I will save that one.

 

[Mossonarock]

y'know whats really frustrating is when you do ten shots and get two real nice tight groups. one on the left of the target and the other on the right of the target. what do you adjust to fix that? do you sort your pellets? tighten the stock screws? reassess your trigger pull? why does it have to be so hard?!

 

[azscot]

y'know whats really frustrating is when you do ten shots and get two real nice tight groups. one on the left of the target and the other on the right of the target. what do you adjust to fix that? do you sort your pellets? tighten the stock screws? reassess your trigger pull? why does it have to be so hard?!

Amen.

 

[Mycapt65]

y'know whats really frustrating is when you do ten shots and get two real nice tight groups. one on the left of the target and the other on the right of the target. what do you adjust to fix that? do you sort your pellets? tighten the stock screws? reassess your trigger pull? why does it have to be so hard?!

That's called split groups. It's the bane of many bench rest shooters. It's generally associated with the shooter's style. Typically it's a breaking position and not consistently returning to the same hold or position. One of the many drawbacks to springers is you have to break position to cock and load the rifle. Funny how the rifle that demands the most consistent hold requires you to reset it for every shot.

 

[azscot]

That's called split groups. It's the bane of many bench rest shooters. It's generally associated with the shooter's style. Typically it's a breaking position and not consistently returning to the same hold or position. One of the many drawbacks to springers is you have to break position to cock and load the rifle. Funny how the rifle that demands the most consistent hold requires you to reset it for every shot.

I guess that also accounts for many if not most flyers so long as someone is using good pellets and a tuned rifle.
It probably also explains my bane: 4 shots in a tight group with the fifth outside the group, usually 1/2" or so at 25 yds. I must be excited about the tight group and do something with my hold on the last one from nervousness. It's definitely a pattern with me. If I only count the first four shots I have some groups with all the pellets touching.

 

[Star7]

Sometimes the split group can be directly related to eye position, a parallax issue.

 

[Danoh]

I guess that also accounts for many if not most flyers so long as someone is using good pellets and a tuned rifle.
It probably also explains my bane: 4 shots in a tight group with the fifth outside the group, usually 1/2" or so at 25 yds. I must be excited about the tight group and do something with my hold on the last one from nervousness. It's definitely a pattern with me. If I only count the first four shots I have some groups with all the pellets touching.

I have exactly the same issue.
“Ol’ 4&1 Danoh” that’s me.

 

[harrympope]

Scot if you get 2 MOA from a springer past 25 yards you're doing just fine. Occasionally you may do 1 MOA but it'd be rare and worth hanging on the fridge. If you're familiar and realistic about the limitations of rimfire, springers are sort of the same thing. The limitations of the ammo quality plus other variables on both require a sense of humor. Springers need a little more patience to get right, but they won't match a good 22LR. Much less centerfire rifles. Don't get discouraged.

well said and my experience.if I'm getting some 1 moa(.5") groups with my springers at 50 yards I'm bragging. If I get .5" at 50 with my Anschutz 54 or Winchester 52 I'm like..meh.