22 RD Monster comparison…..

[Franklink]

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[trlrman]

not trying to be a smart a.. ,just looking for knowledge .
That's roughly 268-69 shots , how many times did you clean the barrel ? Should be a borescope waiting on the porch when I get home , going to try and figure this stuff out .

 

[thomasair]

Didn’t clean during this session. No two barrels are the same in their needs. If you are getting flyers…you probably need to clean more often. Some barrels will need cleaning every 10 shots to keep flyers away. Thats not practical during a shooting match….so you would have to be creative.

Look for radial tooling marks in your barrel lead and transfer port, if you have one. Tooling marks collect lead. If you have a factory machined barrel….it was done in a CNC lathe and it’s a near guarantee that the leade or crown is not concentric with the bore. If it is concentric, you hit the lottery.

 

[trlrman]

Thank you for the tips !

 

[thomasair]

Here is a pic of some tooling marks on one land of a 6 groove barrel. The marks run about 2 inches of the land. This barrel will shoot lights out for 10 shots before throwing an ugly flyer….then it will go back to shooting again. The frequency varies….but it will continue to repeat the process.

 

[igolfat8]

I’ve been cleaning lately with Balistol which works pretty good of removing “blackness” but I rarely see ”silver sparkles” on the patches. When pulling a PatchWorm and their patch through using Balistol it pulls rather easily.

I decided to try something else as a cleaning agent after shooting about 100 15.89 JSBs straight from the tin, which I had multiple random fliers in my $$$ Super Spensive $$$ Avenger .22. The first thing I noticed was the extreme resistance pulling patches through. The first patch was black with lots of silver sparkles, second was gray with fewer sparkles and the third patch was almost clean. Next I proceeded to shoot this target at 30Y using the same pellets but liberally lubed.

I was able to get 63 shots off before the first flier appeared and then more and more fliers appeared after that. It seemed to settle down for a while but random fliers showed up more frequently. I cleaned the bore again and continued shooting with pretty much the same accuracy until fliers showed up in the mid 60’s again. What was apparent again was the resistance in pulling wet patches with another cleaner and the obvious removal of lead. When using Balistol previously I was able to easily pull with my bare hands but when switching something else I had to wrap the PatchWorm around a dowel rod to give me a handle to pull with more force. I’m not sure what science is going on but it certainly puts more sparkles on the patches (IF) that is your goal?

I‘m no expert shooter by any stretch and I was only shooting off a cheap bi-pod and rear scrunch bag In some mild swirly wind.

 

[trlrman]

Anthing that will work to get the saw tooth off or smoothed up ?

 

[thomasair]

Yes…sparkles in the barrel are no bueno.

Those reamer marks aren’t going to be removed…but can be minimized with some 120-180 grit and a cast lap. The trick is not to make a big loose spot.

Mike

 

[DellaDog]

Yes…sparkles in the barrel are no bueno.

My new Red Wolf with fewer than 300 pellets on it has those “sparkles” on the first pulled Balistol patch or two. I’ve occasionally used JB Bore paste on powder rifles, but with much care. Is a light “polish” with JB or Iosso recommended? The RW shoots well, till it throws the occasional flyer - which I’ve blamed on the pellets.

 

[trlrman]

 

[trlrman]

Found a few spot's needing tlc

 

[thomasair]

How is the taper on the breech end? The part that eases the pellet into the barrel.

 

[Smitty911]

How is the taper on the breech end? The part that eases the pellet into the barrel.

Order of operations, I would think they drill the barrel, cut the lands and grooves/LW, the cut the chamber and lead in, followed by the crown.
Is that NOT what they are doing? and wouldn't that help reduce the issue. As well as Sharper Cutting Tools

Smitty

 

[trlrman]

How is the taper on the breech end? The part that eases the pellet into the barrel.

If I recall looked ok , wife was after me to get off the table she had supper ready ! I will check it out closer this weekend .

 

[tommyb]

They cleaned more frequently and lubed their pellets more liberally.

Very intriguing thread.

BACKGROUND: I was thinking of trying an ‘experiment’ next time I’m out at my local outdoor range.
I shoot a RAW HM1000x .22 HP with the MRDs at 940 FPS. Also, have a Daystate Safari .22 HP with ART tested barrel that shoots MRDs at 970 FPS on medium power. Both barrels were just cleaned with Gunzilla and patchworm as I always do after each range outing. I use both 7/8” and 1.25” patches, and the first one or two patches take considerable effort to pull through the barrel. Very tight pull thru, as it should be. Always start at breech end, and I ALWAYS get between 1-3 patches with sparkles ( lead sediments ), before getting a couple of gray patches and then finish with two very clean patches. That’s my cleaning process.

I will shoot 100 yards to an N50 target bull and shoot 75 MRDs with the same POA being the X dot. I know the barrel gets dirty after 75 rounds approximately, and so I will shoot another 75 rounds at a 2nd bull, but will not clean between the two large 75 shot groups.

Next, I’ll compare the two groups and analyze for fliers. I will not sort or size, but I am curious to see if “not cleaning” will demonstrably show many more fliers for the 2nd group. I’m sure it will, but The flaw here is that I won’t necessarily know how many fliers may have been due to bad pellets, or wind drift. Since I’m using the same POA for all 75 shots, there will be no holds. But, I should be able to see the impact of not cleaning on the 2nd group. What do you guys think?

Alternatively, please provide input as to how you might approach this experiment.

I will post all results with pics here.

Tom

 

[Smitty911]

I think I would change targets at 10 shots, easier to keep track of shot counts and you can still see the holes on each target. The POI will be basically the same. Also easier to see the flyers.

Smitty

 

[tommyb]

I think I would change targets at 10 shots, easier to keep track of shot counts and you can still see the holes on each target. The POI will be basically the same. Also easier to see the flyers.

Smitty

Not only that, but it would save me a bunch of pellets! Thanks

 

[Loufish]

Aw crap... I heard Daystate, FX and others were here posting their hard-earned solutions, with proof, for us too. I’m so disappointed.

 

[bigHUN]

Anybody tried this:

Sorting pellets by viewing

Hallo, I live in Germany. Sorry I do not speak English well. Reading works better. That's why I like to read in this forum from time to time. I shoot air rifle and air pistol in .177 caliber for many years. I like to share my experience and knowledge that some European sport and benchrest...

www.airgunnation.com

I could not find any report back so I decided outsourcing two calibre tubes, but no one of my known local lathe machinist show any interest entertaining with. Yesterday I got a call from a gunsmith (not my local but 500 Km away), we exchanged several emails and I got an impression that he understands the principle of testing, will see when he gets back to me with a prototype tube in couple more days.

 

[nomojo65]

I want to add if you have a barrel with a breach o-ring you better pull your barrel to clean properly then replace o-ring. Every time, and this is not practical in a competitive setting. My two cents!