2021 HUBEN .25 Neilson slugs doing darned good post-JB Bore Brite polish

[cwooten5]

Sup, guys!

I've had this rifle about 2 weeks now, and have been determined that it's gonna be a slug shooter. 

Once again, ARES Tactical Airguns had this puppy on with a compact Vector Optics 3-12 44mm FFP scope, and (5) 100ct. boxes of FX 26 grain Hybrid Slugs for $1850. In stock 2 weeks ago, I can vouch for. Probably still got some.

I've tried various caliber Neilson and the FX Hybrids since I've had it. All did "fair." Hybrids pretty good, like 3/4 to 7/8 at 51 yards.

Until I polished the barrel, that is. I've always been a believer in this. Even my Impact I had with their reknown smooth-twist X slug liner (and pellet one) coming off their 10s of millions of dollars barrel machine benefitted from the JB treatment, and looked much more shimmering after it. Y'all prob are familiar, JB in the white plastic "jar." I'll give a pic.

Can't remember, but it's well over 1k grit. I think like 1300 to 1400. But don't quote me.

Anyhow, I have posted a 5-shot group at 51 yards. Looks like 4, but I pulled one low left, and shot another that went through the same 4 holes towards the middle of the top 3. The calipers are covering the pulled low left shot. This is very acceptable off a shaky wire patio table, off an oil bottle for a rest, lol.

26.8 grain Neilsons dish base HP. 1080 FPS. Power wheel just high enough to keep that velocity. This barrel does like speed, as Huben has always had tendencies toward from what I've seen. The Impacts almost always like 920-950. I like hearing them hiss out of there, haha. Faster they hold up, happier I am. I have (500) 46 grain Boat Tail Roundnose "Huben Slugs" off EBay. I'm gonna try cranking it to 200 BAR to get them over a grand and see what they'll do. They come out like 910 (current settings) and do not like it one bit. Shoot maybe 2.5 inches at 51 Y.

Looking, I coulda pulled the calipers closer to be accurate, maybe a half inch, .55 IDK. Just noticed. Anyhow.... they're doing well. This gun loves pressure. My Young Hen HPA compressor is about 8 mos old. Last one lasted about 2 years. It has no issues taking the rifle to 350 BAR. 2 mags easy at this power with that kinda fill. Hoping to raise to 200 BAR on the Reg, and get the 46 grain up to 1000-1050 FPS. Got a lot of those to shoot, don't wanna melt down $46 and pour my own lol. One mag at 110+ FPE will do. On current settings, the 46 grain went through a 5/4 (1 inch true) treated SYP (yellow pine) deck board AND an SPF (spruce, white pine 2x4. This at barely 900 FPS. 

I am ultimately trying to settle on some kind of mold, I have about 60 or 80 lbs of wheel weights I use for sinkers. Would like to use them for slugs. That'd save a lot.

I've included a big chunk of the board for reference. All these except the top left black circle, and the black circle 2nd to the left of the circled group were slugs. That was AA Diabolo field. (just like JSB 26's)

And yes, my 11 year old grandson drew a big ol' chode right in the middle of it, haha! Sure I woulda too at that age. Maybe worse.

The good new group is bottom right black.

 Can see the one I pulled in this shot. (low left hole)

Show me what you workin wit!!!! Let's get a mold for this bad boy.

I read on another thread somewhere that Kelly at CrazKool, I think it was, gave barrel specs as being new for 2021, I know he said unchoked, and I think a 16:1 twist, over LW's 17.7:1. That would explain the Heavy JSB's working so good, I think. But I'm looking to shoot slugs, dang it! After having them hit well, you can't go back. Least I can't.

Plus, I have felony convictions from 1997 that keep me from owning PB's anymore. Dang it. However, the airgun is a very interesting animal, kinda more fun in a "scientific almost free lunch" kinda way, with what I deem much unlocked potential. I fully agreed with what Matt Dubber said in his video awhile back, maybe 3 years; about the next big advance lying in the projectile, not the weapon. Then he friggin' PROVED IT!!! Man, I didn't know PCP Airguns existed till about 2015. Then I find they're a 400 year old tested concept, and I've ridden the train while they've exploded in technology in this past 5 or 6 year period. I was buying Wally World and Cabela's break-barrels in 2015. These are exciting times in the airgun realm. Look around, take it in. It's going down.

PS: I'm gonna try the FX Hybrids again after this polish, and see how much better they can do. They were the best before, so what if??? I have a channel on YT with a couple vids on it. PM me and I'll send the title. IDK if it's really cool to do it here. Y'all tell me....Have a scopecam mount on the way. Want to get some slo-mo slug flights, etc.

Lol, dang, I can imagine how the Mk2 Heavy stack after this polish!

Oh yeah!!! I did receive 2 tins from New England Airguns. I know they've been sold out. Plus Nick at NSA is in middle of moving. Now I don't know if they're still in stock or not. Been over a week. Y'all can try.

One shot of eye candy, so everyone remembers what these look like, lol!!!

Thanks, y'all!

Chris

 

[cwooten5]

PPS: Does anyone know how high this reg can really safely go without blowing out something crucial, LOL? 

Can't find that anywhere.

 

[JamesD.]

You might want to check the hardness of those wheel weight leads. Probably far from the purer lead the leading slug makes use.

 

[knifemaker]

Check out the MP molds that were designed for the Huben. Very accurate!

Knife

https://www.mp-molds.com/bullet-casting-equipment/?pa_caliber=6-35

 

[Brent]

You might want to check the hardness of those wheel weight leads. Probably far from the purer lead the leading slug makes use.

If you let it sit in the smelting pot long enough the tin and antimony should float to the top and be skimmed off with a spoon. That should give you a better quality lead ( softer).

 

[cwooten5]

Yes! I was about to bring that up. I noticed everything, along with the oil from Highway; comes to the top in colors, leaving you with a pure silver liquid.

 

[cwooten5]

That’s right, knife man!

That profile with the nice fat drive band is the one I bought 500 of on eBay. They hate 910 FPS, I can assure you. (2.5 inches at 51y)

I wanna speed up to 1000 and see. If this barrel is 16:1, it should stabilize a slug that length with enough smoke on it, even a boat tail, I would think.

Thanks, Knifemaker

 

[harrymoreland]

Gregor suggested the boat tails where dangerously bad out of the 2021 .25 K2, careful.

He also, in an older K1 video mentioned the K1 liked harder lead ammo, not sure if the 2021 is different, but it so your wheel weights may work a treat.

PM on the way.

Good luck.

 

[cwooten5]

Killer, thank you harrymoreland! 
Good deal, I wasn’t aware.

One thing, 

what does dangerously bad mean?

Thx…. Chris

 

[cwooten5]

At least so far, that Huben seems to like light slugs, kinda like the impact. Though it did pretty good with the 38.5 grain. Haven't chronied that

I've left the power set because of the success with the 26.8 dish base HP. 

I do wanna jack the reg to 20-21 and pop those 46 grain roundnose, just to see if they fly just as bad.

 

[cwooten5]

KNifeman;



It seems that those Huben slugs were originally made, I think, in a 36 grain .223 version. All Hubens were .22 then.

They also had .22 LR barrels with about I think a 1:14 twist. No slower than 1:16. Unfortunately, the .25 barrel doesn't like them much, doesn't look like.

At least the 2021 is unchoked, and we WILL find the Huben Dream SLug lol.

I am sure also they'll do considerably better with the REG cranked up from 175 to 200 or even 210

I'm committed, sir!

We'll get her done, son!

 

[Hobbyman2007]

I personally pick one bullet and play with sizing first . Get the bullet to shoot at its best with the sizing then start playing with speed . I know this is a pain but works well most of the time . If buying off the shelf stuff its even more of a pain. If the certain bullet the ont get the to an acceptable level of accuracy after trying a variety of sizes , I move onto the next. I’m more of a tune the projectile to the rifle type.

 

[knifemaker]

Exactly right Brother HobbyMan! sizing first and foremost. there can be huge differenced in accuracy with only a .0003 difference. I size all slugs. Yep, especially off the shelf slugs from vendors. Anything else is pure luck.

If the slug starts looking promising, I then try different speeds. it's all in the testing. ;<)

I'm at a loss after all that has been learned and posted, so many members still ignore what has been leaned and expect an arbitrary slug off the shelf will work to perfection. It rarely happens. 

Knife 

 

[cwooten5]

Wow! I hear ya Hobbyman,

That's a really in-depth way of going about it, and through these years of thirsty learning, I've really never tested the ammo to that precise a level, nor done much measuring and sizing, which is likely a mistake. I just kind of run through some to get ideas of "type" it likes, far as weight, shape, hardness, etc. Idk, there are often enough times to say, though; just when you think you have nailed down what one seems to like, something radically different. Lol, sometimes it seems like we learn and know all the same stuff, and we're at a plateu, (greatly influenced by the same access online) but that just goes to show. 

Here are 2 totally different approaches that bring 2 different people to a point of success. 

Thought id mention, I've found a couple good ones for the Hercules .357, if you (or anyone) happens to have one. They definitely like light ones up to 95 g. I love to shoot it, but carrying it SUCKS.

If I think about it, sizing and tweaking a shape or design that already seems to group well would be the ticket, lol. Idk. Just thinking out loud, bro. Thing is, usually if they work really well, they're likely sized right within .001 as it is. Enlighten me. I love ballistics, brother.

Thx.....Chris

 

[cwooten5]

I thought that when it was said by Gregor that the Huben style slug did "dangerously bad" in the .25, that it was all alluding to poor accuracy. 

I guess I found out this past weekend; it means the gun doesn't like those "Huben Slugs." (46 grain round nose) 

They almost caused a pretty big failure due to poor cycling because of tight tolerances in all directions. Kept hissing some during shots trying to fire the rest of them out, because of binding of the mag, etc.

Fortunately, after I thought it leaked out the cylinder when I tried to fill it when I first got home with the compressor, I came home the next day, to find that it had 200 BAR in it. Filled to 5k psi. No noises. Pressure good as ever.

Thanks, y'all!

Chris

 

[knifemaker]

If they ever get back in stock, I've had fantastic results with the .22 and 25 slug offerings from NOE Bullet Molds. 

You did a fine job of smoothing the bore with the JB bore paste, however that is only the first step. Follow with JB bore brite ant then Flitz metal polish and remember to re-crown the barrel when finished. ;<)

I'll say again, finding a slug ready made that gives top accuracy without sizing to the actual groove dia. is "Blind Hog Finds Acorn. You can spend a LOT of money chasing that maybe can, maybe can't dream, while sixing is low cost and very effective. 

I simply cannot afford t try every offered slug out there which can take months, when I can spend one afternoon testing sizing.

I will start testing one of our members FX Impacts this week end. He's been chasing his tail with it and it will be interesting. It s the kind of work I enjoy and it can be very rewarding to see a fine gun really come into it's own. 

Knife

 

[cwooten5]

Right. You are a (chocolate) fountain of info morsels. Haha! I guess now I have couple questions.

A. Isn't the NOE the plain smooth cylindrical slug with the basic cone shaped hollowpoint, Knife? I guess actually reminds me of the newer Patriot Javelin, if I think about it.

Maybe 42 grain or somn like that?

B. Is the Flitz a finer grit? Is there only one kind?

Still say yes, I need to get a sizing die or 2.

I just sold hunt413 (I think that's right) my '19 model Impact X in .25. I was explaining to him about the harmonic finicky spot on those. I told him I had it tuned to about 960 FPS. When he checked it at his elevation, haha!! It was shooting like 1020. That's crazy. But you likely know (which I learned from a video about Impact harmonic tuning) that you make those very, very minute valve return spring adjustments clockwise from about 960 FPS (on the Impact) until you hit that perfect spot. They are ALWAYS harmonically off, never the sizing if you're using Neilson .249 or .250 either one. Their bore sizes are EXTREMELY consistent. I found the spot rather quickly first go round, but lo and behold; when I replaced the trans port for the 2-hole double kind, I gained about heck, prob 20 FPS. Bro, I shot a box and part of another trying to find that spot, haha!! Like that guy in video said, just do 25 to 30 yards. It eliminates the need for a super steady hold to boot out owner error. I drew dozens of little circles with sharpie on 1/2 sheet of ply. Shoot 3-shot groups (plenty to see consistency) until they begin to touch or maybe even go thru same hole. Once you see that, your 100 yard will be good to go as well. I cannot vouch for MICRO-micro tuning, once I saw them sharing one basic hole, I dared not touch it again, lol. Costly, it can be.

You know....FX is on the heels of any consistently mentioned owner-reported wants and longings. It would not surprise me at all if they suddenly offered a solid (or thicker at least) bull barrel for high-powered slug guns.

Just a little info that I know for ya, and I hope least one part of it can help you. I love teaching and sharing what I've learned. Prob in vain and repetitious for a vet as yourself, but if you somehow don't know the Impact that well, it could help immensely. That is about the fastest way to lock one in that I've seen! Their bore sizes are extremely consistent.

Thanks again, my knifemaking bro! Let me know about those first issues, when you get to this, my man, please.

Later....Chris 

 

[Hobbyman2007]

The sizing dies and punch from NOE are an absolute must if you plan on shooting cast bullets. For myself having more than one gun in each caliber I went full on and bought one of each size in each caliber. Yes it was a costly investment but in the end I think it will be cheaper than buying store bought. While NOE do have an extensive list of bullet molds in both .22 and .25/ 257 with different designs there are a select few that will fit most airgun magazines. The BBT’s fit just about every magazine in the short formats while the .257 won’t unless you have a machine shop willing to deck the mold to the length of bullet you want . 


While the impact is infinitely adjustable and even more so with the MKIII , I have found it to be one of the most difficult to get to shoot cast bullets well. Mostly because of my constant need to tinker . I almost need to put a lock on the adjustments just so that I leave the darn thing alone. Just when I get close to the perfect tune with a certain projectile , I always find the need to change up caliber , bullet or sometimes the scope. 

 

[cwooten5]

Hey guys!

Where in the hen can I get a dang sizing die setup that’ll do like;

.248, .2485, .249, .2495. .25, and so on???

Help!!!

 

[AncientSword]

They already told you where to get the sizer, at NOE. They make their own, with changeable size bushings. Go to NOE site and shop their sizing tools. You need the sizing die and then whatever bushings you want to have.