12 ft/lb Weihrauch springer?

[thumper]

Tell me more about the the Air Rifle Headquarters kit. Is it really that much better than a PG4 Vortek? Thanks to everyone for all the info…

No it is not. I have had both, presently have Vortek kits in 5 HW guns, have had no problems EVER.

ARH kits have pluses and minuses just like Vortek kits.

The ARH kits have better and lower stressed springs. The lack of the outside guide allows them to use a larger OD spring, which usually offers lower cocking effort, and lower stress.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone posted any problems with the ARH kits here recently or ever? There are a few here right now with the Vortek stuff. 

ARH kits require heavy tar/grease to quiet them down, this makes them temp sensitive.

I know ARH has a cult like following, but I have tried both, and Vortek kits have served me best.

Just for clarity, they do not require heavy tar to be quiet. 

I don't even use it at all. 

And piston seal fit has a much larger effect on temp sensitivity than tar. Unless it's packed full, then temp sensitivity is the least of your worries. 

Whichever you enjoy is the best kit for you. 

 

[Bravo1956]

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/too-much-time-with-pcps-my-hw50s-project/

You cannot go wrong with any of the HW's.

I have been shooting springers for 30 years and have come to appreciate many of these precision AG's, however it seems that when it comes down to grabbing one to go shooting, I reach for the HW50s, it is so light, accurate and the least sensitive to shoot, a pleasure all around.

 

[Deerstalker]

I have no knowledge of the Vortek kits but per recommendations from the air gun forums I installed an ARH kit, Vortek seal and GPL-205 (Krytox) lube in my HW95L .22. After a year and several K shots the FPS is holding at 705 with a 16.18 FPE. Rifle is accurate and MOS at 25 to 35 yards.

 

[EMrider]

Skip the Vortek kit in any of them.. Go with an Air Rifle Headquarters kit. Cocks easier, shoots smoother, and a better quality spring. 

Any of those are solid choices except the HW80. Very inefficient and harsh shooting powerplant with too much weight in the wrong places.

The HW50S is much nicer shooting at 10.5-11ft/lbs than at 12ft/lbs wide open. I've had one for a long time and they are the best shooting gun for the power level other than a rather stiff cocking effort. Best shot cycle of all you listed. Very quick and not hold sensitive. 

The 95/98 would also be good choices. I'd get the 95 between the two because the adjustable cheek on the 98 still doesn't go high enough anyway. They shoot extremely well with the ARH adjustable kit at 12ft/lb. 

I'd get either choice in .177 exclusively. 

Completely agree on all points and couldn’t have said it any better. The only point I’d reiterate is to pass on the hw80……too harsh at any power level.



R

 

[Mycapt65]

The Hw50 is a great gun. I have most of the models, three 177 Hw30s, one of each in 177 - Hw50, Hw95, Hw97, and in 20 cal a R9 and R1. I also owned another 22 Hw50 that I tuned and later sold to Derrek (jusanothajoe). He's pretty happy with it, to say the least. I've also tuned all of the models above for other people. All of these guns use Vortek kits and I'm not going to say that every installation went smoothly but the end product is nice. Everyone I have done a rifle for was very happy with their finished rifle and I haven't had a problem with one yet.



Any good tuner should install any kit you ask for. I would install a JM kit if asked but I use the Vortek kits because I'm familiar with them and know what to expect from them.. 



Back to rifle selection. Of all the rifles I own, my Hw30s are my favorite. That said my Hw50 is the one I'd keep if I had to get rid of all but one. It's just a great all around gun. I like it's power level, size, weight and the way it shoulders. In 177 it's pretty much maxed out at 12 fpe. After that they get jumpy and harder to shoot. Yes the full power Hw50 is almost as hard to cock as a full power Hw95. IMO the size, weight and much smaller cocking slot more than offset the effort. I have my Hw30s for long shooting sessions so the Hw50s cocking effort is a non issue for me. If easy cocking is important go with the Hw95.



The Hw95 and Hw97 are both good candidates for a 12 fpe gun. Go with the 95 if you plan on carrying it around the woods. The 97 is a tank especially with a laminate stock. The Hw80 is a tough gun to bring the power that low. The large bore and it's associated heavy piston and spring makes the shot cycle long and sloppy at power levels that low.

My vote is a Hw50 because it's the one I always grab to take into the woods. Second choice is a Hw95. Either are much nicer tuned regardless of tuning options.



Good luck with what ever route you take. 

Ron 

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I’m definitely leaning towards a HW50 as my “stalker” rifle. Probably in the 10-12 fpe range with a Vortek kit. My HW97 is a snipers dream to shoot off the picnic table in the back lawn but at 12 pounds it’s a bit much for walking around. 

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I’m also looking pretty hard at the HW98 which I’d probably reduce to 10-12 fpe(Vortek) as well. However, I can’t find a lot of info on it. It’s around 8.4 pounds vs my 97 @ 9.3 pounds…by using a Leupold scope I could keep the total weight under the unscoped weight of my 97…which sounds pretty good. I know many think that anything over 9 pounds is too heavy to carry around but I personally don’t mind carrying anything under 10 pounds; particularly a springer. 

 

[thumper]

Good luck with the Vortek kits. 

 

[Mycapt65]

If you are going to walk around with it go for the 50 or 95. My 177 95 is a lazer beam. It challenges my 177 97 at 50 yds. Under one inch groups are pretty common. I've had several groups under half inch groups on good days. Honestly the deciding factor on most of guns is me or the tins at hand. The 50 is the most woods friendly gun if you subjugate yourself under 12 fpe. 

 

[EMrider]

If you are going to walk around with it go for the 50 or 95. My 177 95 is a lazer beam. It challenges my 177 97 at 50 yds. Under one inch groups are pretty common. I've had several under half inch groups on good days. Honestly the deciding factor on most of guns is me or the tins at hand. The 50 is the most woods friendly gun if you subjugate yourself under 12 fpe.

+1

IMHO, the hw50s’ power to weight ratio is excellent for hunting. 10-12fpe is plenty out to 40 yards.



R

 

[pdxFrank]

IMHO, the hw50s’ power to weight ratio is excellent for hunting. 10-12fpe is plenty out to 40 yards.

That doesn't seem right. Assuming you can hit a quarter at 40 yards consistently, that's still only about 2FPE by the time it gets there.

What are you killing with that, a hummingbird?

 

[thumper]

IMHO, the hw50s’ power to weight ratio is excellent for hunting. 10-12fpe is plenty out to 40 yards.

That doesn't seem right. Assuming you can hit a quarter at 40 yards consistently, that's still only about 2FPE by the time it gets there.

What are you killing with that, a hummingbird?

Speaking from personal experience, and not data points on paper, it's fine. I own several guns around that power level in .177 and take squirrels and rabbits with no problem. 

At 30 yards and 12ft/lb at the muzzle, a pellet was hanging under the skin on the far side of a big boar fox squirrel hit right through the vitals that I took. That's enough for what I do. 

But it's all in what you're confident in. 

I hunt with a lot lower power than that, but keep my shots closer. 

The wind is a bigger problem than running out of steam. 

 

[peaceful_ruler]

This. I’m most likely going with the HW50S. The price makes it hard NOT too. Thanks for the advice, folks!

 

[EMrider]

IMHO, the hw50s’ power to weight ratio is excellent for hunting. 10-12fpe is plenty out to 40 yards.

That doesn't seem right. Assuming you can hit a quarter at 40 yards consistently, that's still only about 2FPE by the time it gets there.

What are you killing with that, a hummingbird?

If you shoot a JSB 7.9gr pellet at 10fpe and zero at 20 yards, you’ll have about two inches of drop at 40 yards and about 6fpe of energy at impact.

R

 

[peaceful_ruler]

So I took your advice. This was ordered Wednesday evening last week from Krale and arrived this morning. Only two full business days later! I’m absolutely smitten. It pairs nicely with the Leupold 4-12 Mark AR Mod 1 which is only 15 oz and 12” long. My second group with H&N FTT 4.51 after cleaning the barrel and mounting the scope was well under 1/2” @ 20 meters! Yikes. The squirrels are in TROUBLE. What blows me away is that this accuracy is very near to my HW97 K. I can’t imagine what it might do with a tune kit. Thank you for the advice!

wo full 

 

[mailman22]

Congrats! I just ordered mine tonight from Krale also. Can’t wait! 

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I do find mine to be a bit more hold sensitive than my HW97 K. Still, with the JSB Exact 8.44 pellet I’ve been shooting eggs at 40 meters easily. It is also a lot more prone to windage issues it seems. Any little puff of air blows those .177 pellets around a bit. 


Out of mine; H&N FTT 4.51 and JSB Exact 8.44/4.52 are absolutely lasers…when I do my part. 


I do have an ARH full power kit on the way and I’m looking forward to tuning it myself. I’d like to be right around 10-11 ft/lbs for a sweet <30 meter small game killer.

good luck with yours!

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I forgot to mention trajectory. With a 20 meter zero it is .6 mils/1.8 cm/.71” drop @ 30 meter, 1.4 mils/5.6 cm/2.2” drop @ 40 meters, and 2.5 mil/12.5 cm/4.9” @ 50 meters. With a really good rest and no wind I’m confident out to 40 meters. Anything 30 meters and under is in trouble.

 

[terrysmith53]

I would vote for the HW50S. I have the HW95L and the HW97K and really like both. However if I had to have just one it would be the HW50S in .177. Just received this from Krale today. Shipping was super quick and the price was the best, by far.

 

[EMrider]

I do find mine to be a bit more hold sensitive than my HW97 K. Still, with the JSB Exact 8.44 pellet I’ve been shooting eggs at 40 meters easily. It is also a lot more prone to windage issues it seems. Any little puff of air blows those .177 pellets around a bit. 


Out of mine; H&N FTT 4.51 and JSB Exact 8.44/4.52 are absolutely lasers…when I do my part. 


I do have an ARH full power kit on the way and I’m looking forward to tuning it myself. I’d like to be right around 10-11 ft/lbs for a sweet <30 meter small game killer.

good luck with yours!

Great plan. I do most of my hunting with a 10.5fpe hw50s in .177 and it is quite effective. Mine had an ARH full power kit and that gave me about 11.5fpe with the JSB 8.4s. That was too fast/jumpy and I plan to cut a coil or two and bring the power down to between 10-10.5fpe.

Although I do prefer the shooting characteristics of the ARH kits, I gotta say that Vortek wins by a mile when it comes to ease of use. The top hat design used by Vortek makes is very easy to clip a coil and adjust power. Clipping a coil on an ARH spring is a much more complex process because you need to use heat, close the open end and then likely grind it flat so the top hat fits.

R