10 pound PCPs, what's the damn problem?

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blackdiesel

blackdiesel

Member
Apr 1, 2015
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Georgia, United States
I've always wondered why airgunners complain about a 10 pound PCP but not a 10 pound springer? The only airgunner that I know of who actually shoot a lot freehand is Dave Ratz over in the UK. And even he will always use support if it's available. All the hunters I see who use bullpups, carbines and other liteweight guns either shoot prone, with sticks/pods or use trees and fences for support. I've heard the argument that carrying a 10 lbs gun in the woods is tiring and so forth. I think if you get tired carrying 10-12 lbs, maybe you should hunt from a blind or some other place of ambush. 😳 
 
I know heavier guns are more accurate for sure , They don't move around as much , I think for me I have different guns for different hunts or target , while I agree in woods on long hunts as you get older 10 pounds is alot , but when young I don't thing carrying a 80 pound drag bag is alot , but I have use for a 5 pound gun like Leshiy and I have use for a Barret m-107 50 bmg 50 caliber which weighs 29 pounds .
 
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Im not old but getting older. I like to walk and stalk. Here in NY it is nowhere near the same conditions as out west where you can set up on a colony of ground squirrels. Here you have to navigate thick woods a lot of the times. Carrying a heavy rifle is ok for 20 minutes but not 2 or 3 hours. Also sometimes shooting up high into a tree you have to hold the rifle at steep angles and is hard to use a shooting stick or a branch of a tree. I dont use my heavier rifles anymore while walking the woods. I opt for the shorter lighter guns that I can hold offhand while waiting for the critter to stop and give a clean shot.
 
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Whatever happened to the real men in this country who would go out and stalk a deer so close they could lasso it and then as the deer was dragging them through the brush, across rivers and streams, through mud pits, pungi sticks, cactus etc. they would deftly pull themselves up the rope till they got to the deer and mount the running animal getting the ride of their lives while stabbing it in the neck until it was dispatched. Whatever happened to those men, some say they are in the forests, some say they are along the creek beds, some say they are in the Rocky mountains hunting grizz, some say they have vanished and some say they are still up there.
 
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When you add a scope and bipod, you are looking at closer to 13 lbs. I have one of these behemoths and I struggle to hold it steady off hand when I'm fresh, let alone, after walking and lugging the thing up and down steep hills and fallen trees. At sixty years of age, heart disease and prostate cancer, I'm not in bad shape but for walk and stalk, I want something a bit lighter and maybe shorter like a bullpup. Otherwise, I'll stick with the rimfire.
 
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The problem is the ravages of time health and the ageing process on the human body, in my case any way. I rarely shoot from a bench and I just can't hold and shoot as long with heavy type guns, ( Rapid 12, TX200Mk3 even my Bobcat .25) I can still enjoy a good "shooting session" with these but I can shoot the Wildcat .22 all day, It's not only way lighter the balance is better, FAR more enjoyable for me anyway, bulpups are my go to shooting platforms now going to sell my heavy guns when I get around to it.
 
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I've always wondered why airgunners complain about a 10 pound PCP but not a 10 pound springer? The only airgunner that I know of who actually shoot a lot freehand is Dave Ratz over in the UK. And even he will always use support if it's available. All the hunters I see who use bullpups, carbines and other liteweight guns either shoot prone, with sticks/pods or use trees and fences for support. I've heard the argument that carrying a 10 lbs gun in the woods is tiring and so forth. I think if you get tired carrying 10-12 lbs, maybe you should hunt from a blind or some other place of ambush.
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On a typical hunt, I’ll walk between 5-10 miles. I hunt often with my hw97k, but a sling and monopod is essential and the 10+ pound weight does get old after awhile. After walking for a couple of hours, I do notice a difference when I hunt with a lighter PCP like the 1720.

R
 
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When you add a scope and bipod, you are looking at closer to 13 lbs. I have one of these behemoths and I struggle to hold it steady off hand when I'm fresh, let alone, after walking and lugging the thing up and down steep hills and fallen trees. At sixty years of age, heart disease and prostate cancer, I'm not in bad shape but for walk and stalk, I want something a bit lighter and maybe shorter like a bullpup. Otherwise, I'll stick with the rimfire.
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I mean fully dressed at 10lbs. It's almost like airgunners hear that the 10lb barrier is bad so any gun that cross that threshold is too heavy. But, when discussing springers, and most quality springs scoped is over 10 lbs I never hear much as if it's a big deal.
 
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The balance of a rifle, and its stock configuration mean a lot in handling, comfort, and the ability to shoot it well. Think of the skinny GIs that carried 11 pound Garands all over Europe. I grew up with a WWII veteran as a next door neighbor. I remember him mentioning the weight of the Garand, but also its popularity. Depending on specialty, some soldiers were issued the .30 caliber carbine, probably about half the weight of the Garand. My neighbor said that yes, the carbine was certainly less of a load, but in a fight, everyone wanted the Garand. It was much easier to shoot well, and in the towns, if the enemy was behind a wall, door, or car, he wasn't safe from the Garand. I guess my point is, other things equal, everyone would want a lighter rifle. But, everything is seldom equal. 
 
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If all shooting is done from a bench/rest/sticks/supported...then please explain how the weight of the gun dramatically effects accuracy for pcp rifles? You're confusing GRIP / CLAMP strength with weight...if you CLAMP a PCP down it will be more accurate, that won't apply to a springer so why compare the two?



I really don't follow this reasoning behind this post, it proposes there is a problem while just being controversial...the most accurate rifles are complex machines that counter balance the recoil while keeping the rifle clamped, barrel harmonics reduced by barrel STIFFENING but not necessarily MASS/weight...if a weight is used its generally not much mass and affixed to the end of the barrel and tuned to reduce/improve harmonics. 



My rifle was 11.5 lbs stock with scope+bipod where as its 8.2lbs ~ now. Accuracy better offhand, same rested...



Its a lot easier to ADD weight than it is to remove it, so if adding weight was such a performance enhancer you'd see it become a common tradition of weighing down our rifles more and more until best accuracy were achieved...like so







Seems ridiculous eh?



-Matt
 
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My field target guns weigh over 10 pounds easy. One is 12 the other close to 16. They are not bench guns. I have to carry one with me from lane to lane. The heavy one rests on a trigger stick bipod, the lighter one rests on my knee. Most matches have 10-15 lanes and the matches last 3-5 hours. Much like a morning hunting trip. 

Weight does help with a pcp to dampen your transfered heart beat and twitches. Most weigh between 12-16lbs on average. Again these are not bench rest guns and get carried around for hours. 

I understand a lot of you guys are older but remeber John Glenn went into space at 70. 
 
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I've had all kinds of rifles from Prods to Rapids. Heavy dont bother me as much as over all length. I try to keep my max length under 42" anymore as that just seems to be about right, shorter is better. I used to hunt deer with a 10lb H&R 12ga slug hunter but as I got older I gravitated toward lighter more compact rifles such as my 18" barrelled Marlin 336.

Just bought a Brocock Bantam and it is about the perfect pcp for me. Short, light and plenty powerful and accurate.

I still use a rest 90% of the time as I want to hit what I shoot at. 
 
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I dont shy away from 10 lb guns but if I can use one thats lighter I will. blackdiesel I live in western MT and when I am hunting I have 10 - 25 lbs of weight from a back pack on my back, heavy winter boots plus snow that can be up to 2' or more deep in spots. Now add that to the terrain I am hunting where I could go up in elevation as much as 1,000 feet under normal conditions or more if I really got ambitious and I routinely hike up to 8 miles when hunting big game. If I am successful I will have to get an animal thats up to 600 lbs out of the woods with the gear I carried in. Maybe now you can understand why someone would try to take as light of a weapon as possible. That scenario is for my big game hunting but its very close to my small game hunting with an airgun. When its small game with my airgun I might have a little less weight in my pack or more if I think I need my carbon fiber tank to fill up on the hike. The biggest difference will be less snow since I dont go out as late in the year with my airgun but I have hiked in some snow with them. 

Remember what some call hunting others call just getting started and some of us hunt in very rugged terrain in high altitude. In the end I say use what you feel works best for you and get out and enjoy it. 
 
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