High End PCP Cost?

harrympope said:

About 75% of my shooting hobby is with Schuetzen Powder Burners.The custom walnut stocks a,checkering as , hand polished metdl with deep bluing ,barrel fitting are all handwork and very time consuming.For about 3.5 k you get an heirloom piece of workmanship.
I always have buyers remorse when i pull the plug on a 2K PCP that's a CNC aluminum and plastic wonder.Maybe im a Fudd but I can't understand how PCP rifles have gone to the moon on prices.
Are we getting taken advantage of because we are willing to pay the price?

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I like mine and alright if someone thinks I’m being taken advantage of. My decision and no one else’s.

As they go up in price, the quality goes up as well. Better materials are used. More time is involved in the design and manufacturing. I can appreciate the engineering that goes into a pcp, and all of time machining the individual components. Quality parts are made with higher end materials. They use precision cnc machines and tooling, more care and time is taken in the process. After the machining there is finish work, parts cleaning, powder coating, final assembly, testing, quality control, shipping, distribution, etc. When you compare a high end with a budget pcp the fit and finish is completely different. You can see it and feel it. I do agree, It does suck that pcp's only last so long before needing a rebuild, but they are held together by o rings and high pressure air.

Dstrac said:

It does suck that pcp's only last so long before needing a rebuild, but they are held together by o rings and high pressure air.

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I have to disagree.
I can buy a brand new AirForce Condor for under $800.
That Condor will be pumping out pellets at the same velocity and accuracy literally for years with only basic cleaning and lubrication.

You might need to change the 4 orings or just buy another $40 tophat every 4-5 years.

I enjoy shooting, i don't compete.. i can't compare a well tuned uragan or BRK ghost, to a condor , there is simply no comparison between the two , and the higher you go in price usually the better the finish and ergonomics..everyone of us has it's personal needs or wants , and is a good think that if someone want to go 3k+ there is something nice to buy his money his choice . But after almost 10 years looking for the next gun i realize that for my likes of shoting cast bullets airforce do just fine, so i sold local or here must of the other PCP'S and kept only 2 Taipan and 2 Uragan . For those days that i don't feel like single loading.. the rest are my 6 AF and 2 Texan.. that go from .177 to 308 with those i could shoot anything on the market with a 2 minutes barrel change i could go from a 22 18gr pellet from the RTI - LR barrel machined to fit my 22 condor to a 55gr cast bullet shooter . Or my. 30 Condor from a 45gr pellet shooter from a tj 1-26 twist to a 85gr slug shooter with a .30 1-15.5 twist unchoke Uragan Barrel machined to fit that Condor two .. difficult to beat that . But that is me , Some people really don't like them not even for free .. and i understand that two .. Buy what ever make you happy TIME above ground is short .

harrympope said:

That is why i'm a big fan of airforce.

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Simplicity has a value. Fewer "points of failure" so there is significantly less opportunity to fail in comparison to poppet valve guns.

Simplicity was not what harry was talking about.

The nicest gun I have ever seen in person is my AA500. I do love my AF and HW, but fit and finish are not the same as the AA.

Harry I see your point but it rather subjective based on use and personal value we place on things. That value is seldom linear with quality and price.
Personally I would be hard pressed to spend that much on either pb or ag and not feel remorse.

harrympope said:

About 75% of my shooting hobby is with Schuetzen Powder Burners.The custom walnut stocks , hand checkering , hand polished metal with deep bluing and barrel fitting are all handwork and very time consuming.For about 3.5 k you get an heirloom piece of workmanship.
I always have buyers remorse when i pull the plug on a 2K PCP that's a CNC aluminum and plastic wonder.Maybe im a Fudd but I can't understand how PCP rifles have gone to the moon on prices.
Are we getting taken advantage of because we are willing to pay the price?

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The answer to your main question, is yes. We are willing to pay the price, and so the prices soar. Also it's just the cost of buying things in the main land. If we were allowed to buy FX rifles or other big brand names from overseas like Krale, or Huma-Air, the cost is usually about 1/4 to 1/3 less for the very same pcp.

There is no reason for alot of these pcp's to be as expensive as they are especially when a lot of then just have refinements done to the newer model the next year.


Now in terms of are these higher end pcp's worth it compared to the bottom and mid tier? Most definitely, triggers are better, cocking is smoother, they have better finishes, they have a better selection of barrels (usually).

I got into air for the fun to shoot without hurting my already messed up hearing and the fun of shooting and enjoying the company of like minded folks . It’s a blast an expensive blast but never the less a blast.

If you want an heirloom airgun, get an HW or AA springer and add a custom stock. Some of those old RAWs I had built when Martin R. owned the company with the thumbhole walnut stocks fall into that category. All less than $2k.

harrympope said:

About 75% of my shooting hobby is with Schuetzen Powder Burners.The custom walnut stocks , hand checkering , hand polished metal with deep bluing and barrel fitting are all handwork and very time consuming.For about 3.5 k you get an heirloom piece of workmanship.
I always have buyers remorse when i pull the plug on a 2K PCP that's a CNC aluminum and plastic wonder.Maybe im a Fudd but I can't understand how PCP rifles have gone to the moon on prices.
Are we getting taken advantage of because we are willing to pay the price?

Click to expand...

You gotta buy the right ones. The FX Leopard is a good one

jps2486 said:

If you want an heirloom airgun, get an HW or AA springer and add a custom stock. Some of those old RAWs I had built when Martin R. owned the company with the thumbhole walnut stocks fall into that category. All less than $2k.

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Yes we that have been in the hobby for years think "less than $$$$ ?" AAtx200 $849 and the nubie is remembering his trust Red Rider $39.00

harrympope said:

About 75% of my shooting hobby is with Schuetzen Powder Burners.The custom walnut stocks , hand checkering , hand polished metal with deep bluing and barrel fitting are all handwork and very time consuming.For about 3.5 k you get an heirloom piece of workmanship.
I always have buyers remorse when i pull the plug on a 2K PCP that's a CNC aluminum and plastic wonder.Maybe im a Fudd but I can't understand how PCP rifles have gone to the moon on prices.
Are we getting taken advantage of because we are willing to pay the price?

Click to expand...

I understand and accept basic economics. A product is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Worth is a personal judgement that each consumer makes for themselves. What burns my biscuits is paying $2000 or more for an airgun, and it doesn't have sling studs or QD cups.

Airguns have to do more than powder burners so they are going to cost more. A powder burner has to contain the pressure of the ammo - which is hugely higher than anything our airguns can handle - and strike the primer. Both types of guns have a barrel to stabilize the projectile. But airguns have to store and then meter out the compressed air. So they have more parts that must be carefully made. I have not been buying powder burners for years but you used to be able to buy a 22 rimfire very inexpensively cheaper than a PCP. So one reason PCPs cost more is they are more complicated with more parts.

I think another reason "high end" PCPs cost more is the volume that get sold is low. The design and tooling costs get spread over a smaller quantity, just my guess. At least some PCP manufacturers also seem to have a sales model that involves very frequent model changes presumably to entice buyers to buy again quickly. That would contribute to fewer sales of a given model.

I don't look at aluminum as inferior to steel. I think in raw material it is more expensive. Airguns at least should get a pretty good grade (6065?) to contribute to strength and longevity. Powder burners need to use steel to contain the pressure. I do not see the aluminum in air rifles as cheapening them, I think it is just using what is appropriate.

I would agree with the OP that plastic parts are inconsistent with "high end" guns. Although powder burners sometimes come with synthetic stocks too. I think there is a nice very lightweight custom gun that comes with a synthetic stock just for the weight savings. My point is just that plastic could be used either for cost or functional reasons. A lot of high end guns have nearly no plastic functional parts and have wood stock options. It is certainly possible to find such guns, at the very least. I consider my Caiman on the low end of "high end" and it has almost no plastic in the working parts and it has a laminated wood stock. All the parts are well machined and function smoothly and it has a good trigger. The stock isn't checkered but that doesn't bother me. It was not what I consider cheap but there are lots of powder burners that cost more.

gfmiller58 said:

I understand and accept basic economics. A product is worth what consumers are willing to pay for it. Worth is a personal judgement that each consumer makes for themselves. What burns my biscuits is paying $2000 or more for an airgun, and it doesn't have sling studs or QD cups.

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No only that unless the gun is a break up on engineered.. they have been building guns for years and no matter wat New guns of all brands some have badly machined blocks, bad regulators bad harmonics and trigger that for $2400+ should be timey trigger good.. that is not brand specific all sufer from it one way or another I had purchased 4 higher end pcp only to be sold..because i didn't like how they end up shooting.. don't get me wrong I'm open for a new high end gun if it has my wants.. even if it cost 3k .. would like to see something like the Epic ONE with a 1-14 twist .. 16mm barrel - 800mm long . 120cc+ plenum with a dam metal barrel band half way or where ever work best.. that certainly get my money.. until something like that goes to market even if it is FX .. there is nothing for me in the market... but you be sure if i where to show up in competition localy or state side.. I would simply buy the best gun there is , no matter the cost ..

You can't compare PCPs to PBs, they are two totally different animals! The cost differences are well explained above.

The cost differences between PCP brands can be explained by complexity, cost of materials, and quality of fit and finish.

One BIG thing that affects cost of a product is how much the company is investing in research and development.

Some companies are resting on their laurels, happy to milk a ten or twenty year old design for all they can while making minor cosmetic changes to keep the money rolling in. Same old, same old!

Others are doing a lot of expensive research and development, are current with market trends, and are supporting their customers with products for a wide variety of disciplines and applications.

Guess that a collector has to look at the future return on investment.

As a shooter, I cost-off my airguns as entertainment and figure that when the cost of ammunition expended equals the price of the airgun that I'll call it even... then I go looking for another airgun start that process all over again!

harrympope said:

About 75% of my shooting hobby is with Schuetzen Powder Burners.The custom walnut stocks , hand checkering , hand polished metal with deep bluing and barrel fitting are all handwork and very time consuming.For about 3.5 k you get an heirloom piece of workmanship.
I always have buyers remorse when i pull the plug on a 2K PCP that's a CNC aluminum and plastic wonder.Maybe im a Fudd but I can't understand how PCP rifles have gone to the moon on prices.
Are we getting taken advantage of because we are willing to pay the price?

Click to expand...

If you are willing and you received the advertised product that performs within spec., you aren't being taken advantage of. If you receive something that is substantially different, call a lawyer. Otherwise, the point has been covered by Econ. 101: Supply and Demand.

With substantial cash prizes being handed out, I have no doubt that the bottom line for a winning rifle design will continue to climb. We're in the wild west of PCP/slug design at the moment. You can still win a major match with ~2K rifle. That's not gonna last if the money continues to pour in.

Vana2 said:

You can't compare PCPs to PBs, they are two totally different animals! The cost differences are well explained above.

The cost differences between PCP brands can be explained by complexity, cost of materials, and quality of fit and finish.

One BIG thing that affects cost of a product is how much the company is investing in research and development.

Some companies are resting on their laurels, happy to milk a ten or twenty year old design for all they can while making minor cosmetic changes to keep the money rolling in. Same old, same old!

Others are doing a lot of expensive research and development, are current with market trends, and are supporting their customers with products for a wide variety of disciplines and applications.

Guess that a collector has to look at the future return on investment.

As a shooter, I cost-off my airguns as entertainment and figure that when the cost of ammunition expended equals the price of the airgun that I'll call it even... then I go looking for another airgun start that process all over again!

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I would have to add lower volume as an important factor in PCP costs. PBs are made by the millions/year. Is there a single PCP brand whose total line-up exceeds 1 million/year, no.