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The Tipping Point

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cavedweller

cavedweller

Member
Dec 5, 2018
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Mobile, Alabama, United States
It's a thing
You are trying to get your field target build to be at a "certain" comfortable weight to shoulder and handle in the sticks and especially in the forced lanes.... up until, It gets so light, that the big ol scope on top becomes "too" heavy and you reach the Tipping Point.
Also known as that balance point where the gun might want to just flop over from vertical to horizontal while your addressing the lane.

I recently helped a guy set up a .177 Blackwolf HFT rig in the very light carbon painted wood? stock. He's 80 years young and needed or wanted a lightweight set up.
Goal <9.5 lbs scoped.
The only FT gun i have ever set up, besides the Blackwolf that came close to this desired weight was the Crosman HFT Challenger when scoped with a Sightron S-Tac 4-20x50. This same scope on the Blackwolf yielded an all in weight of just < 10 lbs. Ahhhhh!
But, and here lay the problem.... once you have the right airgun, and you think you have the right scope, it needs to be a scope that works for YOUR eyes.
The S-Tac was a no go for this older gentleman so we played with several Athlons, and Nightforce variations that he liked the reticle on.

Every time we found the perfect for him reticle, it was within a scope that once mounted was (to me and him) too heavy and made the gun tippy in the sticks or very prone to canting.

Grrr, says I....

I think he will have to deal with buying a heavier stock, or using a scope with a reticle not to his absolute liking or finding a way to put more weight below the center of gravity and maybe slightly aft of the trigger guard to stay away from the tipping point.

Thoughts..... Compromise required me thinks?
 
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I have had two torn rotator cuffs and a broken shoulder. I have one replaced knee and the other is not great.
I am 62 years old and the HFT-500 with the scope weighs over ten pounds.

I might hit a forced position if I’m really lucky. But sometimes you gotta just know your limits.

I am working on strengthening my arms. But kneeling is not happening
 
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cavedweller said:
It's a thing
You are trying to get your field target build to be at a "certain" comfortable weight to shoulder and handle in the sticks and especially in the forced lanes.... up until, It gets so light, that the big ol scope on top becomes "too" heavy and you reach the Tipping Point.
Also known as that balance point where the gun might want to just flop over from vertical to horizontal while your addressing the lane.

I recently helped a guy set up a .177 Blackwolf HFT rig in the very light carbon painted wood? stock. He's 80 years young and needed or wanted a lightweight set up.
Goal <9.5 lbs scoped.
The only FT gun i have ever set up, besides the Blackwolf that came close to this desired weight was the Crosman HFT Challenger when scoped with a Sightron S-Tac 4-20x50. This same scope on the Blackwolf yielded an all in weight of just < 10 lbs. Ahhhhh!
But, and here lay the problem.... once you have the right airgun, and you think you have the right scope, it needs to be a scope that works for YOUR eyes.
The S-Tac was a no go for this older gentleman so we played with several Athlons, and Nightforce variations that he liked the reticle on.

Every time we found the perfect for him reticle, it was within a scope that once mounted was (to me and him) too heavy and made the gun tippy in the sticks or very prone to canting.

Grrr, says I....

I think he will have to deal with buying a heavier stock, or using a scope with a reticle not to his absolute liking or finding a way to put more weight below the center of gravity and maybe slightly aft of the trigger guard to stay away from the tipping point.

Thoughts..... Compromise required me thinks?
Click to expand...
What about an adjustable hamster with a bit of weight added , let it hang down a bit ?
 
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cavedweller said:
It's a thing
You are trying to get your field target build to be at a "certain" comfortable weight to shoulder and handle in the sticks and especially in the forced lanes.... up until, It gets so light, that the big ol scope on top becomes "too" heavy and you reach the Tipping Point.
Also known as that balance point where the gun might want to just flop over from vertical to horizontal while your addressing the lane.

I recently helped a guy set up a .177 Blackwolf HFT rig in the very light carbon painted wood? stock. He's 80 years young and needed or wanted a lightweight set up.
Goal <9.5 lbs scoped.
The only FT gun i have ever set up, besides the Blackwolf that came close to this desired weight was the Crosman HFT Challenger when scoped with a Sightron S-Tac 4-20x50. This same scope on the Blackwolf yielded an all in weight of just < 10 lbs. Ahhhhh!
But, and here lay the problem.... once you have the right airgun, and you think you have the right scope, it needs to be a scope that works for YOUR eyes.
The S-Tac was a no go for this older gentleman so we played with several Athlons, and Nightforce variations that he liked the reticle on.

Every time we found the perfect for him reticle, it was within a scope that once mounted was (to me and him) too heavy and made the gun tippy in the sticks or very prone to canting.

Grrr, says I....

I think he will have to deal with buying a heavier stock, or using a scope with a reticle not to his absolute liking or finding a way to put more weight below the center of gravity and maybe slightly aft of the trigger guard to stay away from the tipping point.

Thoughts..... Compromise required me thinks?
Click to expand...
I don’t shoot Field Target but I find your post very interesting from from a silhouette shooting perspective. My current favorite is a Walther LG400 (about 6fpe) that weighs about 10.5 pounds with a Hawke Frontier scope. I’ve been drooling over a RAW TM1000 pistol lately with the idea of making a carbine out of it in 12fpe. The RAW is quite a bit lighter than the LG400 and I’ve wondered about a possible balance issue with a large scope on top. If I end up with a RAW I may have to experiment with adding weights to keep everything balanced to avoid that “tipping point”. Thanks for a great post.
Kenny
 
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astronomical- adjective​

1: of or relating to astronomy
2: enormously or inconceivably large or great
See also- Field Target rifle and pistol scopes.

For additional perspective, many FT shooters mount their astronomical size, weight, and priced telescopes waaaay up yonder in the stratosphere. :unsure:

.
 
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YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Top heavy is so much harder to stabilize be it a rifle or a pistol.

Pic #1 the THEOBEN MFR in a RAW Chassis with a nearly 3# Schmit-Bender up top .... Yes a gun that wished to roll over like an over loaded boat !!
Pic #2 the same action in a lower profile grip / action connection and a Lot less scope being @ 1/2 the weight .... Much better !!

a4.jpg


z7.jpg
 
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Motorhead said:
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Top heavy is so much harder to stabilize be it a rifle or a pistol.

Pic #1 the THEOBEN MFR in a RAW Chassis with a nearly 3# Schmit-Bender up top .... Yes a gun that wished to roll over like an over loaded boat !!
Pic #2 the same action in a lower profile grip / action connection and a Lot less scope being @ 1/2 the weight .... Much better !!

View attachment 593970

View attachment 593971
Click to expand...
Old song or saying = "your to sexy for your shirt"
Well sir that gun is it's own kinda sexy sorta gangsta sexy.
 
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From 2017 to 2022 I shot my Thomas #001 in Open, very short tube, slightly longer barrel, overall a very well balanced setup. In 2023 I got Thomas #293 and it has a much longer air tube, barrel and shroud, it was decently front heavy.

Using a thigh rest I can basically let go of my rifle when it is on my knees, Thomas #001 sat there contently, #293 wants to go nose down into the ground if i'm not careful. Prior to the SOFT match I rebuilt the back end with heavier parts and now it sits contently on my knees like #001.

Luckily (before I added the weight) when I was ready to shoot the thigh rest held the rifle in place and the rifle didn't want to tip forward. Having a floppy gun in any direction is a tricky proposition. I can see getting flustered and things could quickly turn into the rifle or pistol flopping around like a fish out of water when you're on the clock.

I tried using an EdGun Matador 2.5 for FT, thing was so light I had to add weight to the front for stability, I used some 1 1/2" dia stainless steel rod on a bent 1/2" dia stainless steel rod sticking past the barrel a few inches and turned down for some natural gyroscopic resistance.
 
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