New design AEA Pellets update & comparison to old design
- Thread starter Superpete
- Start date
There are only three possibilities if the hole in the back has been increased in size:-
1 The new pellet is lighter than the old design, which will change the flight behaviour and BC of the pellet compared to the old design due to the change in sectional density
2 AEA have managed to increase the density of lead in some way, possibly using a nuclear reactor, which will change the stability and flight characteristics but may glow in the dark thus aiding nighttime shooting
3 The pellet has been changed in some way by adding the lost lead to the rest of the pellet, which will change the centre of gravity position and the moments of inertia, which will change the pellet flight characteristics.
The size of the hole in the base is largely irrelevant to drag, though it could affect dynamic stability as has been shown in full scale projectiles.
Of the three choices, I think 2 is most unlikely, and for possibility 1, it should be easy to check the pellet mass change if there is one.
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All the above, except MAYBE #2, per Ballisticboy's reply was my point in my reply of "where did the 'extra' lead/material go?"
mike
mike
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If you look at the pics on page 2, they redistributed the lead from the skirt to inside the pellet. So the skirt thickness is thinner, and the inside is "filled up" more. This brings the flat part of the shape closer to the skirt opening, and since it is a cone, makes the hole look "bigger".
Since it is simultaneously taking away weight from the rear (skirt), and adding weight to the center mass, but also farther back... no idea how that shifts the center of gravity.
Since it is simultaneously taking away weight from the rear (skirt), and adding weight to the center mass, but also farther back... no idea how that shifts the center of gravity.
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I've recently started a journey down the .30cal highway. I recently bought aea 45gr, aea 50gr and jts 45gr. The JTS seem to shoot better then both AEA pellets out of my RAW HM1000x better. I took a look at the inside of the pellets after reading this post and the aea 45 and 50gr look like the new pellet design and the JTS look like the original AEA design. Don'y know if JTS hasn't caught up with new design or I received older stock. Either way I just ordered a couple more tins of the JTS. We will see what I receive.
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I know it gives me a headache. One moment you can’t buy an AEA 50 gr. Then no one wanted those and you couldn’t buy a 45 gr. Now this….maybe people will just stop shooting them in light of this. I doubt it we are super forgiving as consumers. SIG still sells pistols and amazingly people still actually defend the p320. People are strange.
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There are a few folks that believe the JTS pellets are identical to AEA. If that's the case, has anyone noticed the same change in JTS? And have these changes to the AEA been incorporated to the entire pellet line-up, or just the larger calibers?
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Was shooting the new 45gr at 100yds out of my Raw mini .30 today. 803fps on labradar. Consistently hitting a 1.5'' dot. 35yd zero, .076bc dead on at 100yds. If these are the bad ones I would of loved to of got the good ones.
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Just received more JTS 45gr and they are like my first order all looking like the original tea 45gr and not the new flavor
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Now that the AEA 45’s are coming back in stock, does anyone know if they are the old or new style?
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I shoot 22 caliber AEA pellets in 3 of my airguns. I shoot 18.3 grain in 1 and 21.9 grain in two. I bought a small tin of each to test and they shot great so I bought more - bigger tins. I may have some of the older design 18.3s. If so, the 18.3 and 21.9s have made the same transition as was illustrated for the 30 caliber. What I think is the old design has a skirt that may be slightly tapered on the inside and a smaller less distinct circle in the middle of the skirt. What I think are the newer design have a skirt that seems to be thicker with no taper and a larger distinct inner circle. The newer 21.9s shoot well in the two guns I am using them in. They seem to shoot about the same as the first tin I used up but I don't know what design it was. The two large (500 count) tins of the new design 18.3 shoot poorly. If I ignore the occasional flyer Crosman domed shoot better even though they are going 960 fps. JSB, FX, H&N 18, all shoot noticably better. The old design 18.3s gave me a 5 shot group at 30 yards tonight that measures barely 1/4 inch ON THE OUTSIDE. About a 0.03 inch group. The new design gave two groups from two different tins that were both about 5/8th of an inch outside to outside. Terrible by comparison. H&N Baracuda 18s were next best but it isn't close. JSB and FX were decent but a little bigger than the H&Ns.
Besides the appearance difference I see in the 18.3 skirts the old design has a larger head diameter consistently than the new design. 5.52 for the new and 5.54 for the old (with some variations but this is the predominant head size I get).
I also have a tin of 177 AEA pellets but I haven't shot them yet. Visually I would say they are the new design. I got them recently.
I know some of you have many more and more expensive tins you don't like but I am pissed at having two crappy tins of 18.3s. I did not pay Crosman prices for these pellets but that is about what I got. But maybe in a different gun.... I think a reputable manufacturer would warn us they messed with the design instead of passing them off as the same. They are definitely not the same.
Besides the appearance difference I see in the 18.3 skirts the old design has a larger head diameter consistently than the new design. 5.52 for the new and 5.54 for the old (with some variations but this is the predominant head size I get).
I also have a tin of 177 AEA pellets but I haven't shot them yet. Visually I would say they are the new design. I got them recently.
I know some of you have many more and more expensive tins you don't like but I am pissed at having two crappy tins of 18.3s. I did not pay Crosman prices for these pellets but that is about what I got. But maybe in a different gun.... I think a reputable manufacturer would warn us they messed with the design instead of passing them off as the same. They are definitely not the same.
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It's calm here this morning so I shot some. After that group with the old 18.3s I tried for a 200 on the 30 yard Master target. I've never achieved that. I did not again today. Not close. It was probably me, the gun and pellets are good but it's at least 10 degrees cooler this morning than yesterday afternoon and that could be a factor. I shot the last 8 bullseyes of the target with H&N 18s just to see if the AEAs are better. My conclusion is maybe but only a slight amount. I also shot the "new" 21.9s versus H&N Match pellets out of my P35-22. It's only one 5 shot group but maybe the AEA shot better. There is a low hole on the H&N target. That was my first shot, it is how the gun is tuned right now (I cannot turn the hammer spring up, it is at the maximum).
My overall conclusion is this may be my last AEA pellets, at least for awhile. I do not like the unannounced design change in the pellets and the big advantage I thought I saw in them might have been, in part, my imagination.
I am attaching the target. Notice that tiny 5 shot group with the "old" 18.3s. They weren't shooting that way this morning so maybe it was luck.
My overall conclusion is this may be my last AEA pellets, at least for awhile. I do not like the unannounced design change in the pellets and the big advantage I thought I saw in them might have been, in part, my imagination.
I am attaching the target. Notice that tiny 5 shot group with the "old" 18.3s. They weren't shooting that way this morning so maybe it was luck.
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This is too bad. But I'm glad the information is out there. At my skill level I didn't need a change to a pellet that might not shoot as well. I could see myself chasing around my shooting technique trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong/different or what might have changed in the AG.
But maybe they will just need a different tune and will shoot as good or better than the old.
But maybe they will just need a different tune and will shoot as good or better than the old.
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How did you figure that you have old and new style in .22? I have lots and lots of tins of 18, 22 and 25gr AEA in .22 and 34gr in .25 from stocking up a year ago. They all have the sticker on the back that would be “new style” according to the video. Only the 25gr in .22 don’t have anything on the back at all… so not sure whether the sticker tells you something for the other calibers? Unless they rolled out the new design a year ago already… I’m sure that some of the tins I have are even older though and they also have the “new style” sticker.
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I am comparing the appearance of the skirts. There is a marked difference with the new design much more square on the end of the skirt and the circle on the top is bigger and more distinct. I did not note the point in the video about stickers but I called Utah Air trying to find more old ones. I asked about stickers and what they mean and they said it was just their inventory control, doesn't say anything about design of pellets.
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Personally, I don’t think that you can count on the barcode label. The labels on mine don’t look like the one mentioned in the photo. I can see the difference on .30 pellets. I haven’t really examined my .22 and .25, but I assume they would probably be out of the newer batches.
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I'll include a picture of skirts. It is a hard thing to get a picture of, however. The picture is dark, I do not know why, it was taken under strong light. Transferring it to my laptop was a huge pain for some reason. I cannot work exclusively from my phone like some of you probably do.
Perhaps more importantly I think I solved this for myself and possibly others. I shot a poor target yesterday with the old 18.3 grain AEAs. To try and understand why I shot some groups where I played with the velocity. I will save you looking at all the results but I have one target I think is more important that I will share. I was repeatedly able to get my 3 shot groups at 30 yards down under 1/4 inch with the old design AEA by increasing their velocity to about 895. You see one of these in the upper right corner of the second attachment. I have several more. The target has the velocity of each of the three shots. The old AEA are the top row of the target, below that is H&N Baracuda 18 grain and the third row and the far right target on the 4th row are the new 18.3 grain. When I switched to the new AEAs the velocity dropped. That may mean the mass went up. Somehow my two scales are missing so I ordered another but it won't be here until tomorrow. I know the old AEA 18.3s weighed 18.1 grains on my missing scale.
The key point of this post is the 3 shot target with the new 18.3 AEAs. I think it's the third from the left. That group is as good as I've shot with the old AEA 18.3s. It is at essentially the same velocity as the old AEAs on the top left but I had to increase the hammer spring some to get the new AEAs to that velocity. I was also falling off the regulator as I shot these groups. The group on the right in the fourth row is a little over 900 fps because it was after I refilled the gun. It is only a little worse than the ~895 fps group. The wind was about 6mph according to the weather service which undoubtedly affected groups at least a little in some cases.
I'm guessing the reason for the redesign of the 18.3s may have been the fact that the first design was not really 18.3 grains in weight. Not sure why it was released and then changed. But it doesn't matter if I can "fix it" with about 1/4 turn more hammer spring. Somebody suggested a retune early in this thread, I think they were 100% right. I kind of doubt it will fix the issue for everybody but I hope it helps some.
Perhaps more importantly I think I solved this for myself and possibly others. I shot a poor target yesterday with the old 18.3 grain AEAs. To try and understand why I shot some groups where I played with the velocity. I will save you looking at all the results but I have one target I think is more important that I will share. I was repeatedly able to get my 3 shot groups at 30 yards down under 1/4 inch with the old design AEA by increasing their velocity to about 895. You see one of these in the upper right corner of the second attachment. I have several more. The target has the velocity of each of the three shots. The old AEA are the top row of the target, below that is H&N Baracuda 18 grain and the third row and the far right target on the 4th row are the new 18.3 grain. When I switched to the new AEAs the velocity dropped. That may mean the mass went up. Somehow my two scales are missing so I ordered another but it won't be here until tomorrow. I know the old AEA 18.3s weighed 18.1 grains on my missing scale.
The key point of this post is the 3 shot target with the new 18.3 AEAs. I think it's the third from the left. That group is as good as I've shot with the old AEA 18.3s. It is at essentially the same velocity as the old AEAs on the top left but I had to increase the hammer spring some to get the new AEAs to that velocity. I was also falling off the regulator as I shot these groups. The group on the right in the fourth row is a little over 900 fps because it was after I refilled the gun. It is only a little worse than the ~895 fps group. The wind was about 6mph according to the weather service which undoubtedly affected groups at least a little in some cases.
I'm guessing the reason for the redesign of the 18.3s may have been the fact that the first design was not really 18.3 grains in weight. Not sure why it was released and then changed. But it doesn't matter if I can "fix it" with about 1/4 turn more hammer spring. Somebody suggested a retune early in this thread, I think they were 100% right. I kind of doubt it will fix the issue for everybody but I hope it helps some.
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