I ask why?

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Because we can. When I see a beautiful expensive Airgun cut to 12 ft/lbs because of some over reaching bureaucracy it makes me love the great place I live in even more. So why not, I say reach for the physical limitations. I’m to the point on YouTube the minute I hear any type of European accent I stop the video and move on.
 
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I read all 4 pages before any comments. Normkel was the only one that hit this reason of power on the nose. FOR FUN. If this hobby was not fun I would have nothing to do with it.
I own 15 airguns my most favorite is me Crosman M1 full auto. It is so darn fun. My second is my little Drifter.
I learned from watching videos that a sweet pellet speed is 890 , but not necessarily true for accuracy. I found that my Zelos will shoot the 28 grain slugs 5 shots in the same hole at 830 fps. Too much air can be detrimental to accuracy. The OP said he understood for hunters yet there were post from them defending their right to power. Can shooting a big bore at a target be fun hell yes. Can 12 fpe be fun hell yes. You can have fun with any airgun , and it has perks over PB's. I don't hunt anymore , but the satisfaction of dime shot groups is still there infact I love it So if your a competition shooter be serious , but have fun. If your a hunter have fun. If you are plinker just have fun. I'm 65 now , and I can tell you all life is to short to be stressed out by being so serious seriously. Relax take a deep breath squeeze the trigger , and have some fun. I thank God for all of you here on this Airgun Nation . By the way some of the reviews by the guy's with a Brit accent are pretty darn good. O V.
 
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Great thread guys! I loved reading all of the different perspectives! In my view, there are just a few reasons.
Demand..we, especially as Americans, are always seeking bigger, better, newer,faster…
We can…. Self explanatory
And, the experience..to some of us, sending a 30 cal pellet/slug down the pipe, with 150 fpe of energy , watching and HEARING, it impact a steel plate at 75 yards, causes a slight “ thickening” in the ole britches…. At least for me it does!😜
 
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I do hunt coyotes and woodchucks and also racoons from 60 to 200 yards. I also enjoy smacking steel targets 100-230 yards at my range. You can say ' Well you can do that with a firearm' I hunt coyote at night and gun fire at night doesn't go over big now days. I find PCPs are far more challenging even though both of my pcps are over 300 fpe, one of them with a 150gr slug-990 fps and the other-150gr at 950 fps,

"I shoot high-powered PCPs, but always tuned for the role. For me, it’s about clean, ethical performance—not chasing velocity for velocity’s sake. High power isn’t bad—it’s bad tuning that gives it a bad name."
 
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My most powerful is a .22 at 32 fpe. Everything else is 20 fpe or less. They suit my needs. However, I dream of a perfect semi-auto holding 12 380 grain 457 slugs that I could silently kill feral hogs and an occasional deer with.

I view "powerful" air rifles as improving on black powder, not replacing PB.
 
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d3vnull said:
My most powerful is a .22 at 32 fpe. Everything else is 20 fpe or less. They suit my needs. However, I dream of a perfect semi-auto holding 12 380 grain 457 slugs that I could silently kill feral hogs and an occasional deer with.

I view "powerful" air rifles as improving on black powder, not replacing PB.
Click to expand...
I don’t think powerful air rifles can come close in power to modern black powder.
You got me curious, I check it out.
 
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blackdog899 said:
very brief look
both 250 grain bullets
black powder 1700 fps. 1700 fpe
pcp. 1000 fps 550 fpe
Click to expand...
Fair enough since we are talking about fpe. I will freely admit I was thinking more about my experience with building a 50 cal Hawkins at 16 and the task of having to clean the barrel after every use. The old ball ammo lost a lot of fpe at 100 yards as well.
 
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bfloyd1095 said:
I have been in the hobby a little over 9 years now, seen huge changes in just that short time frame...

There is one thing that I just don't get, well more, but that is for another day.

Why does the American market crave the over-the-top power?

Ok for competition shooters I kinda get it, 100 yard benchrest in 10-15 mph winds, I'll give you that one.. but for the average shooter I see No reason for the 80 plus ft/lb guns.
Hunters ok I get that too, but I will put it out there, I don't think the majority of Hunters are taking wild pigs or coyotes with an air rifle.. For the most part I see them as pesting for tree rats, invasive birds, etc..

I will also put it out there that Most target shooting, paper, steels, etc, are all probably under 40 yards in a backyard shooting scenario, hell even Most FT events are lower powered restricted

So you ask what the hell is my point?.. Have you looked at the trend of most newer guns?.. They tout stupid high power. the poor guns are so maxed out they wear out and fail prematurely..

This "power junkie" mentality has hurt a large portion of the low powered offerings, especially in small caliber..

Why in god's name would produce a .177 caliber airgun that is shooting over 1000 fps, the damn thing won't hit the broad side of a barn with any consistency because the damn pellet is tumbling, makes no damn sense...

Anyway, these are just the rambling thoughts of an old man and I would love to hear your thoughts,
Click to expand...
agree
 
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bfloyd1095 said:
I have been in the hobby a little over 9 years now, seen huge changes in just that short time frame...

There is one thing that I just don't get, well more, but that is for another day.

Why does the American market crave the over-the-top power?

Ok for competition shooters I kinda get it, 100 yard benchrest in 10-15 mph winds, I'll give you that one.. but for the average shooter I see No reason for the 80 plus ft/lb guns.
Hunters ok I get that too, but I will put it out there, I don't think the majority of Hunters are taking wild pigs or coyotes with an air rifle.. For the most part I see them as pesting for tree rats, invasive birds, etc..

I will also put it out there that Most target shooting, paper, steels, etc, are all probably under 40 yards in a backyard shooting scenario, hell even Most FT events are lower powered restricted

So you ask what the hell is my point?.. Have you looked at the trend of most newer guns?.. They tout stupid high power. the poor guns are so maxed out they wear out and fail prematurely..

This "power junkie" mentality has hurt a large portion of the low powered offerings, especially in small caliber..

Why in god's name would produce a .177 caliber airgun that is shooting over 1000 fps, the damn thing won't hit the broad side of a barn with any consistency because the damn pellet is tumbling, makes no damn sense...

Anyway, these are just the rambling thoughts of an old man and I would love to hear your thoughts,
Click to expand...
Like all other forms of technology. Air guns are evolving, because the technology is improving. It only makes sense that air gun companies are going to try and build the most accurate, powerful , and reliable platforms they can to advance the sport. It's no different than cars, it's why racing and motosports exist. It's only natural for humans to push boundaries and make better versions. Multi caliber airgun platforms are the future. They can make 20- 200 ft/lbs. , and do it with precision and accuracy.
 
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blackdog899 said:
I don’t think powerful air rifles can come close in power to modern black powder.
You got me curious, I check it out
Click to expand...

blackdog899 said:
very brief look
both 250 grain bullets
black powder 1700 fps. 1700 fpe
pcp. 1000 fps 550 fpe
Click to expand...
Modern black powder definitely has more raw energy, but airguns like the Texan .308 aren’t far behind in capability. With a tuned valve, high-BC boat tail slugs, and integrated optics like the ZULUS, they maintain flatter trajectories and tighter wind profiles out to 800 yards. You lose some brute force, but gain precision, modular control, and ethical consistency—especially when black powder's extreme drop and drift limit real-world accuracy. It's not just about power—it's about how reliably you deliver it.
Click to expand...
 
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────────────────────────────────────────────
🔫 Texan .308 vs .50 Cal Black Powder @ 800 Yards
────────────────────────────────────────────

⚙️ Setup Specs
────────────────────────────
| Parameter | Texan .308 | Black Powder |
|---------------------|------------------|---------------------|
| Slug/Bullet Weight | 150gr SFBT | 250gr Sabot |
| Muzzle Velocity | 1042 fps | 1850 fps |
| Ballistic Coefficient | ~0.200 | ~0.210 |
| Muzzle Energy | ~361 ft-lbs | ~1900 ft-lbs |

📉 Energy Retention
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan Energy | BP Energy |
|-------------|--------------|-----------|
| 600 | ~135 ft-lbs | ~849 ft-lbs |
| 700 | ~95 ft-lbs | ~655 ft-lbs |
| 800 | ~70 ft-lbs | ~463 ft-lbs |

🧮 Drop & Wind Drift (10mph Crosswind)
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan Drop | BP Drop | Texan Drift | BP Drift |
|-------------|------------|---------|-------------|----------|
| 600 | ~180 in | ~352 in | ~45 in | ~60 in |
| 700 | ~250 in | ~470 in | ~55 in | ~75 in |
| 800 | ~340 in | ~600 in | ~70 in | ~90 in |

⏱️ Time of Flight
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan TOF | BP TOF |
|-------------|-----------|--------|
| 600 | ~1.2 sec | ~1.19 sec |
| 800 | ~1.6 sec | ~1.5 sec |

🎯 Verdict
────────────────────────────
- Texan wins on **trajectory, wind control, and precision**.
- Black powder wins on **raw energy**, but drop and drift make 700+ yd shots impractical.
- With ZULUS support, the Texan offers **realistic ethical hits** at extreme range. It's like comparing a sledgehammer to a scapple. lol

────────────────────────────────────────────
 
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As many have mentioned, it’s what America does.

About 20 years ago I was rebuilding a Wheel Horse garden tractor. Its Kohler engine had thrown a rod. I was at the local dealer getting some parts and was looking at the current model. I said to the dealer “I see the latest model, which is the same cut width as my 20 year old model is now 20HP. Wasn’t the 7HP big enough.” He said the 7HP was entirely adequate and there was a sort of rule of thumb for required HP per inch or something for mowers and 7HP was plenty. He said the reason was twofold. One, if the competition ( Cub Cadet, John Deere, etc.) came out with an 8 or 9 HP then everyone else upped the game too. And second, he said, America loves power, and it didn’t apply only to yard equipment. Look how powerful Tesla’s are. And then there’s that Dodge Charger muscle car with an incredible amount of HP for a “street car”. And the Chevy Corvette now can come with has drive rear wheels and the front are electric. Yeah, the Corvette was always underpowered. Not.
It’ll never stop.
 
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357cal said:
────────────────────────────────────────────
🔫 Texan .308 vs .50 Cal Black Powder @ 800 Yards
────────────────────────────────────────────

⚙️ Setup Specs
────────────────────────────
| Parameter | Texan .308 | Black Powder |
|---------------------|------------------|---------------------|
| Slug/Bullet Weight | 150gr SFBT | 250gr Sabot |
| Muzzle Velocity | 1042 fps | 1850 fps |
| Ballistic Coefficient | ~0.200 | ~0.210 |
| Muzzle Energy | ~361 ft-lbs | ~1900 ft-lbs |

📉 Energy Retention
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan Energy | BP Energy |
|-------------|--------------|-----------|
| 600 | ~135 ft-lbs | ~849 ft-lbs |
| 700 | ~95 ft-lbs | ~655 ft-lbs |
| 800 | ~70 ft-lbs | ~463 ft-lbs |

🧮 Drop & Wind Drift (10mph Crosswind)
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan Drop | BP Drop | Texan Drift | BP Drift |
|-------------|------------|---------|-------------|----------|
| 600 | ~180 in | ~352 in | ~45 in | ~60 in |
| 700 | ~250 in | ~470 in | ~55 in | ~75 in |
| 800 | ~340 in | ~600 in | ~70 in | ~90 in |

⏱️ Time of Flight
────────────────────────────
| Range (yds) | Texan TOF | BP TOF |
|-------------|-----------|--------|
| 600 | ~1.2 sec | ~1.19 sec |
| 800 | ~1.6 sec | ~1.5 sec |

🎯 Verdict
────────────────────────────
- Texan wins on **trajectory, wind control, and precision**.
- Black powder wins on **raw energy**, but drop and drift make 700+ yd shots impractical.
- With ZULUS support, the Texan offers **realistic ethical hits** at extreme range. It's like comparing a sledgehammer to a scapple. lol

────────────────────────────────────────────
Click to expand...
Ahhhhh not so fast Haaaa.
Let’s use the same bulletin weight. I don’t think the Texan would have the wins !
Besides I’ll bet theres black powder guys with very accurate guns. Technology
hit those Hawkins too…
 
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blackdog899 said:
Ahhhhh not so fast Haaaa.
Let’s use the same bulletin weight. I don’t think the Texan would have the wins !
Besides I’ll bet theres black powder guys with very accurate guns. Technology
hit those Hawkins too…
Click to expand...

⚔️ Head-to-Head Setup​

SpecTexan .308 (Airgun)CVA Paramount Pro .45 Cal (BP)
Projectile150gr SFBT (pure lead)280gr PowerBelt ELR
Muzzle Velocity~1042 fps~2320 fps
Ballistic Coefficient~0.200~0.333–0.452
Muzzle Energy~361 ft-lbs~1600–1700 ft-lbs

The Paramount Pro is arguably the most advanced production BP rifle today2—a true long-range beast with high-BC bullets and super-magnum charges.


📉 Energy Retention @ 700–800 Yards​

Range (yds)Texan .308 EnergyParamount Pro Energy
700~95 ft-lbs~400–450 ft-lbs
800~70–75 ft-lbs~300–350 ft-lbs

  • Black powder wins on raw energy, no question.
  • But your .308 still holds ethical precision for small-to-medium game at 800 yards.

🧮 Drop & Wind Drift (Zero @100 yds, 10mph crosswind)​

Range (yds)Texan DropBP DropTexan DriftBP Drift
700~250 in~300–320 in~55 in~65–70 in
800~340 in~400–450 in~70 in~85–90 in

  • Your Texan’s flatter trajectory and tighter wind profile give it a serious edge in precision.
  • BP’s heavier slug fights wind better than lighter BP loads, but still drifts more than your .308.

⏱️ Time of Flight​

Range (yds)Texan TOFBP TOF
800~1.6 sec~1.3–1.4 sec

BP gets there faster, but the Texan’s predictable flight path and ZULUS integration make it easier to correct mid-flight.


🧠 Tactical Takeaway​

  • Paramount Pro dominates in energy, making it ideal for elk or large game at distance.
  • Your Texan .308 wins on stealth, control, and precision—especially for coyotes, hogs, or pest control.
  • At 700–800 yards, the Texan isn’t just holding its own—it’s outperforming BP in ethical hit probability.
First you have to know the restraints of a BP rifle even though they produce a great deal of fpe:
1. Inconsistent Burn Characteristics

  • Black powder has a non-progressive burn—it ignites fast and dumps energy early.
  • This leads to pressure spikes that vary with humidity, grain size, and even how tightly the projectile is seated.
2. Fouling and Residue

  • Every shot leaves corrosive residue in the bore, which affects velocity and accuracy unless cleaned between shots.
  • Fouling buildup changes barrel harmonics and projectile seating depth—bad news for consistency.
3. Ignition Variability

  • Percussion caps and flintlocks introduce delay and variability in ignition timing.
  • Even modern inline BP rifles can suffer from hang fires or misfires, especially with loose powder.
4. Barrel Pressure Drop

  • Black powder pressure drops rapidly down the bore, especially in longer barrels.
  • This limits velocity and makes it harder to maintain a flat trajectory past 600–700 yards.
5. Projectile Design Limitations

  • Most BP rifles use heavier, round-nosed bullets with lower ballistic coefficients.
  • Even advanced BP rifles like the CVA Paramount Pro use high-BC bullets, but they still fight gravity and wind drift harder than your airgun’s boat tail slugs.

🧠 Tactical Summary​

Even the best BP rifles—like the .45 cal Paramount Pro—can reach 800+ yards, but they struggle with:

  • Trajectory arc (think rainbow vs laser beam)
  • Wind drift (especially with lighter sabots)
  • Shot-to-shot consistency (due to fouling, ignition, and powder variability)
 
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