Karma .25 Karma EQ has arrived!

Struckat said:

Photo?

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I posted it to the "what did you buy today" thread. I guess I should include it here...

Ok. I just spent a very nice 2hrs playing with the EQ trigger group. I watched the "Don's World" video, which goes into a good bit of detail on the EQ's trigger group, before I started in. Don's EQ trigger video

I didn't take any pix, as it is all covered in Don's video. I essentially followed his techniques. Big plus for the EQ: adjustability and access is excellent. Everything can be done with three metric Allen wrenches. Con: it is a series of fussy adjustments...but what trigger group isn't?

I really like that there is a port in the side of the rifle to view the sear engagement (usually blind). Take off the little sheet-metal cover and there's a 2mm screw under there for engagement. Very easy to adjust...and when you've gone too far, it simply won't reset. Back off a little and you're back in business. Just like any other sear, too little engagement = safety issue. I easily found "too little" and then backed off till I felt I had a safe trigger.

The long (it's a bullpup, the trigger is quite a ways from the sear) trigger bar doesn't have a threaded adjustment. There are locking collars on both ends with Allen screws to lock them in place. It also holds the trigger 1st stage spring. By futzing around with these locking collars, I was able to create either a single-stage trigger or a 2-stage trigger. I prefer 2 stages. I'm also an old-time NRA Service Rifle shooter...which means I'm used to a 4.5lb trigger. The Mrod is 1.5lbs...really too light for me.

In the end, I obtained a 3.5lb trigger (I have a "Wheeler" digital gauge)...but not as crisp as I'd ultimately like. The sear is just a tad lumpy for me...I imagine the engagement surfaces need honing. I'm also not entirely sure the hammer spring isn't part of the problem (the problem: getting a lighter trigger). I confirmed it is backed off to minimum (actually the adjustment nut was loose).

So, I'm not thru with the trigger group. But I'm not ready to go further until I get some shooting time with her. Waiting for a scope and mounts to be delivered...

Other things:

Working on the trigger group means I'm at the bench and handling the rifle a lot. Pick it up, flip it around, adjust, dry-fire, etc., etc. At some point I noticed a bit of wiggle...like the rifle's got a microscopic hinge in the middle. After messing around with it a bit, I found that the joint between the tank and the action (just ahead of the trigger) was just a little floppy. After some further investigation, there is an Allen set-screw in the back of the trigger guard which was loose. 1/4 turn (snug) and the rifle's no longer wiggly. I wish I had a parts breakdown/manual to tell me what that screw's job is! Maybe these are common to PCPs...but I'm pretty new to how they're put together.

I noticed the plenum cap (which appears to take a spanner) has had a bit of wrench slip. It is a painted part and some of the spanner holes have paint chips missing.

I removed the picatinny accessory side-rails. I'll never use them. Bagged and taped to the inside of the case under the foam.

I did take a few shots. Loaded up the magazine with a few 23g Dead Center pellets. Different magazine, slightly different procedure, no real issues. Shot them into my rubber-mulch trap from 3ft away (no scope yet). I installed the Shogun moderator and took a few more shots. Quieter!

As received, the cylinder pressure was 3700psi (255bar). All my dry-firing today took it down to 3000psi (207bar). The regulator was showing 2000psi (138bar) initially but dropped to 1900psi (130bar) after a few shots. It stayed there all the way down to 3000psi. I got out the fill probe and tested the GX CS3-1 compressor: 4,000psi (275bar), no problem (I've never used a probe, the Mrod has a foster fitting).

Oh, and I received an interesting Chrony today. It's a "Natechrony". 1/2-20 mount, crazy simple. I'll be testing it out on the Mrod as soon as the power bank arrives (it uses any 5v power bank, like you would have for your phone, etc.) NateChrony I'll review it separately when I get it up and running.

Life gets in the way! The day after the above post, I checked into the ER. I think I quadrupled my lifetime barf count that day. Diagnosis: gallbladder...6 days later and two surgeries (9 holes in the belly), I get back home (Thursday). Still a little sore today.

But, I couldn't stand it any longer and spent some time today with the EQ (and the Mrod). I had mounted up the new scope on the EQ and needed to get a basic zero on it. Additionally, I set up the Natechrony.

I just fed ~50rds of 25.39 Dead Center pellets thru her with no real tuning. 750fps avg, 2.5 SD...single holes (~12m). Not a bad start. The reg. is hovering around 1900psi, bottle at 4000psi. As this will primarily be a slug gun, dialing the reg. up is in the cards.

The Natechrony is as basic as it gets...and it works as advertised. Very nice data set. Screw it to the 1/2-20 moderator adapter, plug it into a power bank and start shooting. Easy peasy.

I ran the Mrod thru it and found I've been running under 680fps. No wonder the squirrels never hear it...tweaked the hammer spring a tad and now 770fps. Might have to tweak a bit for accuracy, but at 20yds...shouldn't be an issue.

gbmarcht said:

Agreed, seems very well made. I took a serious look at this gun but don’t think I could get the trigger where I would want for bench rest.

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I think it is indeed a design limitation. I imagine there will a good bit of work to get below 2lbs. Crisp is my primary goal. As I've said, I wasn't looking for ounces.

The amount of room available and ease of access will be inviting for the aftermarket, I think. The long trigger bar begs for some kind of threaded fine adjustment.

I'm looking for a lightweight flat forearm...and something to ride a rear bag.

So, continuing my exploration of the EQ. I'm still relegated to the garage, so 12m is about it. I'm still shooting 25.39g diabolos. JST and Exact Kings. It appears to like either, very slightly different tune for each. Basically, I'm using the diabolos to teach me how to tune and break in the rifle. All shooting done without a moderator...but with threaded endcap mounted chrony.

• This thing is fun and comfortable to shoot. I bought the wrong scope rings. I need tall, not medium. Tall will be here tomorrow...
• It seems different than any of the youtube videos...yet it seems to be happy to throw out single digit ESs with 2 or 3 SD.
• Yes, the upper cocking handle unscrewed itself. That's what loctite is for. My soft-jaw pliers have escaped, otherwise I'd have just added some torque.
• Hammer Spring access is a silly catch-22. The screw is wide (9mm?), with a 4mm? counterbore and screw-slotted either side of the counterbore (I thought it was a hex, it is not...just a smooth CB). The slot in the buttplate is about the width of the counterbore. Thus, any flathead screwdriver narrow enough to pass thru the buttplate cannot engage the slotted portion. Fix: I widened the slot in the buttplate with a 3/8" bit. Now I can use my stubby screwdriver.
• Oh, and the alternate Hammer Spring Wheel wasn't locked onto the hammer spring screw. It was loose. Thus, it turns without doing anything. Again, loctite will fix that. But, it really should have a grub screw. Meh.

Tuning has been both easy and a struggle. It arrived with the regulator set at 1900psi, the Hammer Spring (HS) backed all the way off and the Xfer port at Max. I suspected that was a pellet tune, and it was: 750fps with the 25.39g diabolos. I was getting three magazines, no problem (78 shots starting tank pressure 3800psi). I futzed around with the HS. Even a single click stiffer brought less velocity. Getting the indicator off the Zero mark took 10 clicks and velocity dropped well below 700fps. Groups at 650fps were one-ragged-hole...and I think I could have shot well into a fourth magazine.

Having had all the fun I could with the HS, I tried the Xfer port. Just moving it slightly off Max dropped velocities again. No noticeable change in accuracy. I ran it incrementally from Max to Min and dropped about 200fps total.

So, as I'm planning on doing the slug thing, I figured I should push velocities up. I tweaked the reg up to 2000, dry fired a couple times and refilled the bottle to 4000psi. Velocity crept up to 870fps...but the reg didn't hold to 2000psi. After one magazine, it said 1950psi. So, I did a little exercise where I raised the pressure to 2000, dry fired 10 shots and rechecked. I had to do that 5 times before it settled on 2000 and stayed there. I dunno if that is normal...

With the reg holding at 2000psi, it now shot 877fps (average, 26 shots). I did it all over again for 2100psi. Pew, pew, pew...870fps. Ok, perhaps it needs some HS. One click, no change. Two clicks, no change. Eventually, 5 clicks: 850fps. Back it off and try the Xfer port. Same thing, anything off Max and it drops. I ran the HS up to ~20 clicks, Xfer port Max to Min no bueno.

Ok, on to 2200psi: Same drill, back HS to zero, Xfer port to Max. Get the reg to settle on 2200psi. Aha! First shot after refill (4300psi) was 902fps! That is the only shot this rifle has produced above 900fps. I did a 26 shot string that ran max 898, min 884. The first 13 shots were quite level, then a 5fps drop and another fairly level group. The next magazine (still without refill) started at 884 and dropped steadily to 852. Here's the graph.


Having no previous experience tuning, I don't really know what to expect. It appears that if I want 900fps, I'm going to need to get the regulator above 2200psi (and I have no idea of the regulator gauge accuracy to boot). Based on the various youtube videos of the EQ, they're getting 900+ well below that and with much heavier ammunition (at least 33g diabolos). I have the Zan slug sampler (up to 45g) and a tin of the AEA 49g slugs.

I did order a few tins of heavier pellets. 33.9g @ 904fps (2000psi reg) is what the .25 EQ is advertised to do. I'd like to see if I can somehow make it meet "as advertised". Based on what I'm seeing, I don't think mine will do it. Do heavier pellets respond better? Stay tuned!

1handwill.gc said:

I love you ride up. I have an EQ 25 since the very first day they went on sale in with the factory set up zero on the spring 2000 psi on the regulator. I’m shooting 33 point something or other pellets at 920 and shooting slugs of 40 grains at 870+ I think you might be confused about the hammer spring. You might wanna turn it counterclockwise all the way out and start from there. I think you might discover something very quickly about how your karma actually works, but that’s just my two cents to me. PCP rifles are all about experimenting with. I hope you like it after you’re done filling it out looking forward to hearing about your progress with it.

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I will give the HS another try, it has been on my list. I need to lock down the loose adjustment wheel anyway.

I did run it counterclockwise, it came bottomed out clockwise, so CC is the only option.

Hot morning at the range...and I forgot my bandana. Sweat running everywhere...

I was unable to snag the 50yd shooting bay, had to shoot at 25yd. Next time I'll make sure I get Bay #8. Shady too...

First shots at 25yd were with Exact King Diabolos, 25.39g, same thing I've been shooting in my garage @ 12m. Not particularly accurate at higher regulator settings...which is around 890fps (4300psi fill). After getting the scope adjusted for 25yds, I swapped over to the JST Dead Center 33.8g pellets. No change to the reg. These are mo bettah. I started getting 5 shot groups all touching...but some had fliers. I had a bad seat (too short for my bench) and had trouble keeping the EQ stable on the bags. I need to make some bag riders forward and aft (and I need a taller chair).

Switching to AEA 33g pellets tightened up groups considerably. I shot several "one holer" 5-shot groups...but still kept getting the occasional flyer...some really bad...low. Oops. I replied to another comment and this got posted early.

Ah well. Anyway, I kept getting the occasional low shot...like 2" low. That got me looking at the reg pressure. Starting pressure was 2400, after one magazine, the regulator was showing 2100. Tank pressure was still above 3500psi. I re-adjusted the reg pressure to 2400 and shot 5 rounds...back to 2100psi. Re-adjusted, shot 5 rounds...2200psi. Shot 5 more rounds, 2100psi. I did those 5-round experiments all the way down to 3000psi with no change in behavior. My regulator has the creeps...downward.

So, I topped up the tank (4500psi) and tried some of the AEA 33g slugs. The first 5 shots gave me 4 in one hole and one an inch low (still at 25yds). I didn't mount the chrony but this setup was running 890fps with the 25g pellets. Still the same problem, the regulator was creeping down constantly.

After 2hrs in the heat, I gave up and went home. The EQ definitely showed plenty of potential...but I gotta sort out that creepy regulator. I did adjust the transfer port for one string. It produces very nice vertical stringing. Close the port a smidge, shot drops low. Close it more, drops more. Open it back up to max, back to square one.

Learning curve is still steep. I'm going to call DonnyFL and see if they have some insight on the regulator issue.

1handwill.gc said:

Yeah, it’s not your average cheap air again any little adjustment at least mine changes the whole game not power also the trigger I adjusted it once and it was short light crisp but unfortunately, the safety wooden engage so I had to go back end up, leaving at factory stock

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The trigger group needs some more accurate adjustment means. The little locking rings are fussy as heck...and the 1st stage spring should have a threaded adjustment rather than the e-clip. Mine is just over 2lbs but still has a smidge of creep. I intend to pull the sear and take a look at the engagement surfaces. It feels a little bumpy. I've been tuning my firearm triggers for 40 yrs. Stoning/tuning sear surfaces is just normal, even with hot-rod aftermarket sears.

blackdog899 said:

I’m having the same problems, I have the 22. The first stage travel of the trigger is .577 measured from bottom of trigger.
Try to lessen it and it won’t fire. Try to lessen the pull weight and it won’t cock. Just got a trigger gauge off the classifieds
and the average of 10 shots is 2lbs 11.7 oz. Not good and I swear it doesn’t get better with the two adjustments .

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Have you watched the "Don's World" videos on the EQ? I got enough pointers from there to get mine working pretty good at 2lbs. It does have a fairly long 1st stage...but getting it all balanced out is a damn finicky process.

When I take out the whole trigger group, I'll have a better idea how to get it properly set. At the moment, I don't think mine will get safely below 2lbs.