whats the best way to make a dope card for my particular PCP gun and my ammo ?

HAWKE Chairgun ... I think download is still out there ... tho not certain

forestsounds said:

I have been studying rifles and scopes and reticules ect and im realizing that all of the info i studied is for normal guns with factory ammo that fire roughly the same fps and fpe every shot and all of the mobile apps are really technical and dont seem to apply to my setup at all, although an MOA is still and MOA so i figure this can still be done

my AEA megalodon 22in .58 cal is not even regulated but for the first few shots its roughly the same and is strong enough for 100 yard deer hunting but im not sure how to make dope card that will be reliable in the field so that i will know what moa adjustments i to make once i know the range of my target

I dont yet have a chronograph to test my fps so i would for now rely on youtube videos where they shoot the same exact gun and same exact ammo to get my average fps of 750 with a 335 grain slug with the scope zeroed in at 50 yards

I might be missing something as all of this is pretty new to me, anyone here have hunting or 100+ yard shooting experience with these big bore airguns ?

what kind of cheat sheet can i make so i can quickly and accurately take a shot at 100 yards or 150 if my scope is zeroed in at 50 yards, or zeroed in at 100 yards and i wanna take the shot at 50 yards or maybe im on a hill and deer is 200 yards out maybe thats possible with this gun im not sure yet more testing needed, any wisdom shared will be greatly appreciated thanks

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There's always the way I end up doing even after a calculator. I go out and shoot all the ranges and confirm my dope and sticker my turrets accordingly. Pb or air. It's a bunch of air, ammo and work but the piece of kind knowing that it's right there for conditions is nice.

If the stickers are pretty close to the calculator I will sticker for every 5 or 10 years for 1 full turret rotation and just lean on the calculator beyond those ranges.

Strelok is a pain to get now but I will input my zero as ex 60 yards and then shoot at my 15 yard indoor range and zero based in what the calculator says to dial for 15. More often than not my 60 and other ranges are spot on if you have averaged your velocity thru enough shots.

I'm not saying this is the right way, or even a better way. It's just a way that works for my situation and I shoot past 100 yards in 22 and 25 cal. I hope it helps you in some way. There's a couple other calculators that have projectile data pre loaded too, I just find strelok and it's data correction to fit my needs and I had pro before the political banning of the app.

forestsounds said:

I have been studying rifles and scopes and reticules ect and im realizing that all of the info i studied is for normal guns with factory ammo that fire roughly the same fps and fpe every shot and all of the mobile apps are really technical and dont seem to apply to my setup at all, although an MOA is still and MOA so i figure this can still be done

my AEA megalodon 22in .58 cal is not even regulated but for the first few shots its roughly the same and is strong enough for 100 yard deer hunting but im not sure how to make dope card that will be reliable in the field so that i will know what moa adjustments i to make once i know the range of my target

I dont yet have a chronograph to test my fps so i would for now rely on youtube videos where they shoot the same exact gun and same exact ammo to get my average fps of 750 with a 335 grain slug with the scope zeroed in at 50 yards

I might be missing something as all of this is pretty new to me, anyone here have hunting or 100+ yard shooting experience with these big bore airguns ?

what kind of cheat sheet can i make so i can quickly and accurately take a shot at 100 yards or 150 if my scope is zeroed in at 50 yards, or zeroed in at 100 yards and i wanna take the shot at 50 yards or maybe im on a hill and deer is 200 yards out maybe thats possible with this gun im not sure yet more testing needed, any wisdom shared will be greatly appreciated thanks

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Get some tall Targets on a 1" grid. I use 12x18 inch splatter targets for stuff like this. Set one up at 50, 75, 100 yards etc. Use the same point of aim then measure how far off the point of impact is. Once you know that you can find a reference point on your reticle and test it out. Then you can make yourself a cheat sheet.

forestsounds said:

I have been studying rifles and scopes and reticules ect and im realizing that all of the info i studied is for normal guns with factory ammo that fire roughly the same fps and fpe every shot and all of the mobile apps are really technical and dont seem to apply to my setup at all, although an MOA is still and MOA so i figure this can still be done

my AEA megalodon 22in .58 cal is not even regulated but for the first few shots its roughly the same and is strong enough for 100 yard deer hunting but im not sure how to make dope card that will be reliable in the field so that i will know what moa adjustments i to make once i know the range of my target

I dont yet have a chronograph to test my fps so i would for now rely on youtube videos where they shoot the same exact gun and same exact ammo to get my average fps of 750 with a 335 grain slug with the scope zeroed in at 50 yards

I might be missing something as all of this is pretty new to me, anyone here have hunting or 100+ yard shooting experience with these big bore airguns ?

what kind of cheat sheet can i make so i can quickly and accurately take a shot at 100 yards or 150 if my scope is zeroed in at 50 yards, or zeroed in at 100 yards and i wanna take the shot at 50 yards or maybe im on a hill and deer is 200 yards out maybe thats possible with this gun im not sure yet more testing needed, any wisdom shared will be greatly appreciated thanks

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Ok so to summarize your post:

Your airgun is not regulated, so the FPS and thus FPE will drop off after some shots. (So not like PB ammo which will have the same FPS and FPE each and and every time you shoot.

You do not have a chrony, so a ballistic app (Chairgun, Strelok etc) is of very little use. Watching Youtube videos and extrapolating FPS and FPE from other users is of very little use as one HAS to verify the exact FPS/FPE for YOUR PARTICULAR airgun. (If you input a certain FPS that someone else’s airgun generates into a ballistic app, you have exactly ZERO certainty that YOUR (same make and model) airgun wil generate EXACTLY the same energy. (This is as simple when the guy in the factory screwing in the hammer spring with ONE turn less than the other gun: boom, energy and thus aimpoint is slightly off. Not so much a problem if you shoot at 20 or 30 yards, but at long range it exaggerates the hit or miss enormously.

But luckily not all is lost here. Really the only way here is to do what the other guys above described already:
Zero for a certain range then shoot a target at your intended shooting distance(s) and see at which tickmark of the reticle the slug impacts the target. (Keep the pressure topped up of course)

Good luck!

Just shoot the ranges needed and record the drop. Using a ballistic calculator will get you close but you still have to shoot the ranges to verify.

I would still use a calculator at your guessed speed, to get you on paper at said ranges. You always have to “dope your scope”.

forestsounds said:

I have been studying rifles and scopes and reticules ect and im realizing that all of the info i studied is for normal guns with factory ammo that fire roughly the same fps and fpe every shot and all of the mobile apps are really technical and dont seem to apply to my setup at all, although an MOA is still and MOA so i figure this can still be done

my AEA megalodon 22in .58 cal is not even regulated but for the first few shots its roughly the same and is strong enough for 100 yard deer hunting but im not sure how to make dope card that will be reliable in the field so that i will know what moa adjustments i to make once i know the range of my target

I dont yet have a chronograph to test my fps so i would for now rely on youtube videos where they shoot the same exact gun and same exact ammo to get my average fps of 750 with a 335 grain slug with the scope zeroed in at 50 yards

I might be missing something as all of this is pretty new to me, anyone here have hunting or 100+ yard shooting experience with these big bore airguns ?

what kind of cheat sheet can i make so i can quickly and accurately take a shot at 100 yards or 150 if my scope is zeroed in at 50 yards, or zeroed in at 100 yards and i wanna take the shot at 50 yards or maybe im on a hill and deer is 200 yards out maybe thats possible with this gun im not sure yet more testing needed, any wisdom shared will be greatly appreciated thanks

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@forestsounds Funny you should ask this question. I started reading the following thread on the this very topic yesterday. Here’s an interestingly thorough method of compiling DOPE. The OP is a field target competitor.


I’m thinking that with accurate close range data, you can have excellent figures to input into a ballistic calculator to determine where to dial your turrets for accurate longer shots. His method will eat up a lot of ammo and air, but should produce repeatable results. Ultimately I think you will benefit from using an accurate chronograph in order to utilize ballistic programs/apps. You will likely waste a lot of ammo and air trying to wing it. If you aren’t casting your own slugs and using a compressor To fill your rifle it can get costly quickly.

For an unregulated air rifle it is important to find the sweet spot and to record the weather conditions you shot under. In my experience the sweet spot is seldom at maximum fill pressure. How much can you afford to spend on a chronograph? I’m confident that members can suggest a few models ranging from $50 - $200 that can help you get where you want to be.

I rarely shoot out to 100 yards, but for unregulated big bores a tethering rig is very helpful in collecting data. This enables you to consistently and methodically collect data a various fill pressures. A chronograph is extremely helpful when using a tethering setup. Without doing any of the aforementioned, shoot the distances, record the results, and pray that they are repeatable on paper. If you can’t reproduce your results in the same conditions. I don’t suggest trying to hunt deer at such a long range and you are not sure of your abilities and the capabilities of your chosen gun/scope/ammo. I started out like you, but in .357 caliber. I spent a significant amount of time (months), air (I had a scuba tank and no compressor), and ammo (mostly .35 pellets punching paper) to start learning my rifle. I still hunt deer with slugs close-range where I’m comfortable. My apologies for not having simpler methods to suggest.

Which state are you in? I hope you can legally hunt deer with PCPs where you intend on hunting deer. Asking these sorts of questions and being new shooting PCPs, attempting to hunt deer at 200 yards is out. Focus on 100 yards and under on paper and see where you are from there. You'll need a chronograph to determine whether you're even within your state's legal minimum FPE requirements at the muzzle. At a distance, ethics come into play. This is more of a personal issue so again, know your gun/scope/ammo combo thoroughly. I suggest mastering shooting closer ranges with your gun/scope/ammo combo first. Thanks for at least inquiring before going out and trying to hunt.

forestsounds said:

I have been studying rifles and scopes and reticules ect and im realizing that all of the info i studied is for normal guns with factory ammo that fire roughly the same fps and fpe every shot and all of the mobile apps are really technical and dont seem to apply to my setup at all, although an MOA is still and MOA so i figure this can still be done

my AEA megalodon 22in .58 cal is not even regulated but for the first few shots its roughly the same and is strong enough for 100 yard deer hunting but im not sure how to make dope card that will be reliable in the field so that i will know what moa adjustments i to make once i know the range of my target

I dont yet have a chronograph to test my fps so i would for now rely on youtube videos where they shoot the same exact gun and same exact ammo to get my average fps of 750 with a 335 grain slug with the scope zeroed in at 50 yards

I might be missing something as all of this is pretty new to me, anyone here have hunting or 100+ yard shooting experience with these big bore airguns ?

what kind of cheat sheet can i make so i can quickly and accurately take a shot at 100 yards or 150 if my scope is zeroed in at 50 yards, or zeroed in at 100 yards and i wanna take the shot at 50 yards or maybe im on a hill and deer is 200 yards out maybe thats possible with this gun im not sure yet more testing needed, any wisdom shared will be greatly appreciated thanks

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Well for starts... where you zero your scope, although up to you, should be based more on your pellet or slugs apex or height of trajectory.
there are several good ballistic programs (i'm still learning) but chairgun elite, or strelock pro (if android) are a couple of options.
There is no substitute for actually taking the shots and recording the data - solid and verifiable dope.
but
you want expediency.
So,
zero your airgun at your projectiles apex... prob between 25-35 yards for most pellet guns that are subsonic?
open your ballistic app and fill in all the data for your scope type MOA or Mrad, reticle, first focal plane or second focal plane and magnification range and distance you zeroed it.
Take note of the height of the scope or center of scope to center of barrel distance provided in the App. I recommend starting at 2.5 inches for this. This number will change!
Hang in there.
Next load or enter your pellet weight and pellet speed.
You will now go into that program and tell it you are shooting at X distance or 10 yards in this case.
Then take that same airgun and shoot at a "lined target" from a solid bench with your aim-point being the horizontal line.
You will notice the pellet strikes lower than your zero... that's good or ok.
In the app compare the app's point of impact against the actual point of impact from a shot fired (3 is good).
In the scope selection area of these apps you will see a scope height data block, if you fiddle with it you will notice that your Apps point of impact changes with distance as you raise or lower the center of scope to center of barrel (scope height); if you want start with 2.5".
At this point you will fiddle with your scope height setting in the App until your point of actual impact, is the SAME as the point of impact in the App.
SAVE IT!
You can now enter various distances into your APP and it will tell you your holdovers and or Click values.
These numbers maybe close but they are not rock hard facts... you gotta set some targets out and TAKE THE SHOTS to verify things.
Some times ballistic coefficients etc... may be not perfect. And there are ballistic coefficient charts available unless your shooting new stuff and your own stuff where no one has correlated the data.

One more really important thing... "the vertical rise and fall of the pellet or slug" aka vertical trajectory is only 1/2 the fun... in the world of pellets guns you have to learn about horizontal drift from wind and how the terrains inclinations or rise and fall of the landscape or an elevated target affect your point of impact.

forestsounds said:

thanks for the reply and i absolutely will learn my gun and range before hunting a deer i bought the 58 cal with higher fpe not for increased range but for an ethical and legal kill, thanks for the solid advice everyone much appreciated also i would be happy to get some recommendations on a good chronograph i would rather save up and buy one thats accurate then buy the wrong one trying to save money, i do have a good compressor cs4-i with good filter and i want to buy an extra tank and tether setup as well but dont have the money for it yet

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@forestsounds I'm glad to have helped. I have only successfully used a Competition ProChrono DLX chronogragh. Here's a link to one on sale now for $146 including shipping. This site is safe to shop from, you only have to create a free account with them. I've used them for a few years. https://www.dvor.com/competition-electronics-prochrono-dlx-with-bluetooth.htmlI Back to this chronograph. I have used two of the same model. I used the first ProChronon for a couple of years before shooting it a few times. It stopped working after shooting it with a big bore probably late last year. I then bought a replacement. I have another chronograph that I have not taken the time to learn. Below is a thread where I worked through learning a new rifle, scopes, and ammo. My process was not too refined, but I displayed it and learned about my process. You can also see the amount of time I spent before taking an animal with it.


*Caveat, I was already familiar with this platform. This newer model is more powerful from the factory than the previous iteration.

In a tetherin g setup the tethering regulator is the largest cost behind a new carbon fiber tank. I also bout some 5' and 6' fill whips. You can get away with keeping your rifle connected to your SCBA tank via a long fill whip until you can afford a tethering regulator. I should have a photo of my tank, tethering reg, rest, and rifle setup in the thread I posted above. The trick to tethering without an external regulator is managing the flow of air pressuer from the bottle to the rifle by way of slighgtly opening the valve and monitioring the gauges on your unregulated air rifle and SCBA tank. As you shoot the pressure in tht tanl goes down. As it goes down you'll have to incrementally open the valve more ever so slightly until your SCBA tank reaches or dips below your rifle's maximum fill pressure. Then you can leave the SCBA tank valve all the way open without fear of over-pressurizing your rifle.

forestsounds said:

thanks, ya i dont wanna take any chances of overfilling my gun and weakening the tank thats why i got a pump that can auto shut off and good water/oil filter i want to keep my tanks as healthy and safe as possible, i will look for the highest quality whip and quick connecters ect and get a good tethering regulator so i dont have to worry about it too much, i will probably buy the tank first then later buy the tether regulator and chronograph, its all turned out to be more costly then i expected lol, but i figure if i setup a shooting spot where i can collect my lead or find a good source of free lead then making my own slugs will pay off all these costs in about a year and then its all free shooting after that

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@forestsounds The main issue I had in mind with over pressurizing your air rifle's reservoir is locking the valve. Too much pressure in the reservoir can render the hammer spring setting and hammer weight not powerful enough or useless to open the valve when you pull the trigger. It is highly unlikely that you'll cause your reservoir to rupture.

In time you will likely figure out what is important for your air rifle setup. Like other hobbies, this one costs money. In which state do you intend to hunt?

FX V2 chrono

Even if you purchased a cheap $30ish chrony it will get you a lot closer than guessing or assuming! Our VERY idiosyncratic equipment can vary greatly from one gun to the next (or one video to the next). Your 1st step should be to remove as much guesswork as possible imho.

Gerry52 said:

Even if you purchased a cheap $30ish chrony it will get you a lot closer than guessing or assuming! Our VERY idiosyncratic equipment can vary greatly from one gun to the next (or one video to the next). Your 1st step should be to remove as much guesswork as possible imho.

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The $30 amazon reads within a few fps of my FX pocket chrono.

I 100% rely on empirical (DOPE) data from going to the range and shooting in 5 yard increments. Time consuming? Absolutely. But it’s full proof.

Jay308 said:

The $30 amazon reads within a few fps of my FX pocket chrono.

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Right there with ya pal. My "discount" chrony has always been within 2-3fps & cheapo rangefinder within a couple yards of units costing hundreds more. It suits my purposes very well. When tuning "blindly" a cheap chrony makes more sense to me than guesswork.