Terminal Ballistics: .30cal or .22cal for Feral Pigeons?

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6gun said:
Lemme be more useful here. 30 cal offerings I've searched and would try knowing how they work in smaller calibers.

Polymags
Hybrids
Hades
Patriot javelin slugs in the lighter range.

In 22 the patriots are soft and the hollow points are similar or the same regardless of weight so I use the lighter ones for "sketchy" work.
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6gun said:
Im out in the deserts of southern California and the winds are not ideal here. I rarely if ever have a shot within 60 yards as well.

I don't know if these are offered in 30 but if energy dump is what you need the ones I've found that just dump it all are as follows

Predator polymags
Crow magnum
Hybrid slugs (to a point, they need SOME velocity or they're just a pointed slug).

The there's the pellet standby shapes for low velocity if they're available in your caliber. Wad cutters and silver bears, they are putting in work on a different principle.

I've taken more critters than I dare venture to guess with a slow benjamin 392 (22) at 30 yards plus with crow mags seeking out maybe 7 - 7.5 fpe at my hit ranges.

Now I don't much mind about peak power if the trajectory is the same evey time. Just wipe their head off or thump them center mass if you can't have a pass thru(all of my pcp do now anyways)

The lonely table for 1 might be the trick.

Op is 30 cal and 30 to 40 fpe, it's going thru but a pellet might be the trick over a slug here for drag reasons and lighter build.

This is the science of it I enjoy.
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All of this is extremely solid advice.

For me personally the 30gr Franco slugs are my Swiss army slug precisely because they expand so well. It shoots flat as hell in my gun but even at 62FPE it won’t pass through a dove at 35-40yards… one squirrel that I hit at 65y a little lower than I like had a little bit of gore on the other side but not a big hole. Looked like a small lead fragment had passed through but either way it wasn’t a lot.
 
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6gun said:
You give me a bit of a morbid idea, if you ever eat any of these or collect the evidence.... Clip off a wing and cover your expansion medium with it. Sometimes if the headshots isn't an option going thru the wing is all you have and they're surprisingly tough.

If I comment a bit too much here, this and rowdy crows have been 30 years of my airgunning and is sort of my lane. Cotton tails and upland game birds generally are so lightly constructed I don't really discuss the nuance of those hits (big dove/pigeons and turkey aside)
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I hunt just about everything I can right now but I do love hunting doves. They are very wary, have great eyesight and aren’t as dumb as people think. The 2 or 3 that still come near my house will now fly away when they see my car!! The quail on the property drive me crazy too cuz their alarm calls alert everything on the property that I’m on the prowl. Can’t wait for quail season… I’m gonna shoot or chase them off the property and back on public land so I can hunt Doves in peace again.
 
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Cantona256 said:
I hunt just about everything I can right now but I do love hunting doves. They are very wary, have great eyesight and aren’t as dumb as people think. The 2 or 3 that still come near my house will now fly away when they see my car!! The quail on the property drive me crazy too cuz their alarm calls alert everything on the property that I’m on the prowl. Can’t wait for quail season… I’m gonna shoot or chase them off the property and back on public land so I can hunt Doves in peace again.
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What species of quail is blowing up your spot typically?
 
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I have pretty much given up shooting doves. But I've shot through wings. Your comment reminds me of a missionary I provide a little support to. He is in Hawaii and wanted advice for killing feral chickens. He was using a break barrel and having a problem reliably killing them because of resistance from the wings. I suggested a Bullshark in 22. We exchanged emails later and he said it worked great. No more penetration issues. I've shot doves through the wings before and the resistance was not an issue at all for my PCPs. The smallest are a little under 20 fpe but I probably used the 30+ fpes more for doves, just because that was what I was using at that point. With enough fpe, I don't think wings are an issue at all. But if I had one I'd try it. Squirrel shoulders seem tougher to me than dove or pigeon wings.
 
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Cantona256 said:
The 30gr Franco slugs expand so well. Even at 62FPE it won’t pass through a dove at 35-40yards…
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Trevor,

help me out to make sure I understand you correctly:

● You're shooting "Franco slugs."
➠ Do you have a link, I have never heard of them.

● You don't get pass-throughs, even at 62FPE?
(.25cal, 30gr, 965fps MV: that results in an IV still far above 900fps IV at those ranges — fast enough for expansion in mammals, I would think — but birds?)
I was under the impression that pigeons are so small, and have such little meat on them, that it's not enough for a slug to expand.
➠ Have you frequently recovered expanded slugs in the carcasses?


This is very interesting!
Thanks! 😊

Matthias
 
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Gerry52 said:
At lower power the 50gr might not A) stabilize too well & B) have a loopy trajectory compared to the lighter 44.75 grain. But, what do I know?
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Thanks, Gerry,
I just had the opportunity to shoot the Turtle Dirty Thirty — and it's got a lot of vertical stringing and lacking in general precision.

That is very well what you're warning me about — not stabilized, just kind of tumbling toward it's target at 60y (with an estimated 470fps IV).

On my next outing I will have to go up in power, if I like it or not, to see if I can't get more precision.

Thanks! 👍🏼

Matthias
 
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lbc_PSI said:
If your gun will shoot them..

www.thepelletshop.com

Predator Polymag | .30 Cal | 44.75 Grains | 100 Ct – TPS

The patented Predator Polymag is a premium quality hunting pellet which combines a hollow head with a sharp polymer tip for unsurpassed performance on small game. Whether ridding your garden of unwanted pests or stalking your favorite hardwoods in search of squirrel, experience excellent...
www.thepelletshop.com www.thepelletshop.com

..maximum POP.
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Yeah, Polymags...! 🤩 ​


Gerry, present right here in the thread, was the nice guy who sold them to me. He must have filled each tin with extra pellets beyond the required amount, and sent them off to me at a nice price.
After a few months the .30cal Polymags — in perfect shape — made their way all the way to South America where I live and kill.
Thanks, Gerry! 😊


I pursued a type of glory kills where a .30cal projectile would terminate a pigeon in a
𖦏 PFE hit (Parts Flying Everywhere) — or a
𖦏 Red Mist Hit.

➠ However, it seems like I have not been able to achieve these types of glory kills, not even with the .30cal Polymags screaming out of my barrel at 1000fps....
The pigeons just keel over and are simply dead. Nothing spectacular. (HOSPS is a different story, I know!)


➠ If you have any experience what it would take for such glory kills to occur, I'm all ear. 👍🏼


Matthias
 
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Cantona256 said:
All that being said I am really interested in this because I’d love to figure out a safe way to smash these collared doves in town. They’re all so fat and happy chilling on powerlines in these quiet neighborhoods 😂😂.
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Trevor,

you live on the other side of the equator, but I think I fully understand you....! 😆


Here's some food for your murderous thought:

➊ I have obtained scientific research articles on the damage that pellets can do to eyes. For .22cal, the impact energy has to be a little more than 1FPE, the larger the caliber the higher the energy needed to do damage to an eye.

➋ Projectiles shot at an angle at trees etc. will eventually come down to earth. But where? And with how much force (FPE)?

➌ GPC Ballistics is a free ballistic app that (just Hawke's Chairgun Pro for Windows) calculates the maximum range of projectiles shot at an angle. And their impact energy and impact velocity.

➠ The app will tell you that for typical pellets at angles steeper than 10⁰ or 11⁰ the pellet will return to Mother Earth with less than 1FPE left.

➍ However, the app will also tell you that slugs — because of their much higher BC — will have much more energy left when returning to Earth. ⚠️ Danger!

Matthias
 
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6gun said:
This is the science I enjoy.

If I comment a bit too much here, this and rowdy crows have been 30 years of my airgunning and this is sort of my lane.
Click to expand...


Rob,

this is the science I enjoy as well — terminal ballistics.

We're swimming in the same lane.
It's just that you're 23 years ahead of me....! 😃

Swim on!!

Matthias
 
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JungleShooter said:

Yeah, Polymags...! 🤩​


Gerry, present right here in the thread, was the nice guy who sold them to me. He must have filled each tin with extra pellets beyond the required amount, and sent them off to me at a nice price.
After a few months the .30cal Polymags — in perfect shape — made their way all the way to South America where I live and kill.
Thanks, Gerry! 😊


I pursued a type of glory kills where a .30cal projectile would terminate a pigeon in a
𖦏 PFE hit (Parts Flying Everywhere) — or a
𖦏 Red Mist Hit.

➠ However, it seems like I have not been able to achieve these types of glory kills, not even with the .30cal Polymags screaming out of my barrel at 1000fps....
The pigeons just keel over and are simply dead. Nothing spectacular. (HOSPS is a different story, I know!)


➠ If you have any experience what it would take for such glory kills to occur, I'm all ear. 👍🏼


Matthias
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That’s a pretty good question. I know a 35gr slug will chop a quail in half from about 15 yards haha… I see the Utah airguns guys disintegrating prairie dogs from 150+… but they are using slugs. What you’re looking for is slugs. You need the massive expansion and energy dump to create the gore you’re looking for.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Trevor,

help me out to make sure I understand you correctly:

● You're shooting "Franco slugs."
➠ Do you have a link, I have never heard of them.

● You don't get pass-throughs, even at 62FPE?
(.25cal, 30gr, 965fps MV: that results in an IV still far above 900fps IV at those ranges — fast enough for expansion in mammals, I would think — but birds?)
I was under the impression that pigeons are so small, and have such little meat on them, that it's not enough for a slug to expand.
➠ Have you frequently recovered expanded slugs in the carcasses?


This is very interesting!
Thanks! 😊

Matthias
Click to expand...
Eurasian doves are not small and quite tough. I’ve seen them eat a pellet to the body or wings and keep going.

Yes you read that correctly. With my current set up I have shot 6 squirrels and 4 Eurasian doves. Range for all was between 40 and 75 yards. I don’t eat the squirrels I give them to my friend who wants all the skinning/tanning practice he can get…. But yes I’m getting a really nice entrance hole and no pass through. One squirrel had a little bit of gore in the opposite side from impact but not a full exit wound.

But yes that’s been my whole point this thread. These slugs I’m using give me great confidence that as long as I hit my target I’ll get what I want.

Franco slugs are custom made. Still cheaper than store bought though.

[email protected]

Give him a shout. Bro makes the best slugs I’ve tried in the barra so far.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Trevor,

help me out to make sure I understand you correctly:

● You're shooting "Franco slugs."
➠ Do you have a link, I have never heard of them.

● You don't get pass-throughs, even at 62FPE?
(.25cal, 30gr, 965fps MV: that results in an IV still far above 900fps IV at those ranges — fast enough for expansion in mammals, I would think — but birds?)
I was under the impression that pigeons are so small, and have such little meat on them, that it's not enough for a slug to expand.
➠ Have you frequently recovered expanded slugs in the carcasses?


This is very interesting!
Thanks! 😊

Matthias
Click to expand...

This is the squirrel that did have a little bit of pass through. I think the slug just came in a steep angle of attack cuz it enters right around the shoulder and he had a little bit of squirrel soup coming out lower down on the opposite side.

The 35gr and 36gr slugs defo don’t expand much in doves. On mammals they do fine though…

I had a 40gr slug pass completely though a jack rabbit(hare) a couple months ago and I didn’t like that at all.

I don’t chase “glory kills” as you call them. My thrill is the sound. First time I heard the *thwack* from my Umarex Komplete hitting a chipmunk I was like *hmmm*….. when I heard the sound of the slug hammering the squirrel 60 yards away and over the wind I got a smile on my face that lasted all week. Also I can tell from the sound that the 35gr need to go just a little bit faster than 895fps to get that devasting energy dump I’m looking for.
 
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JimD said:
I have pretty much given up shooting doves. But I've shot through wings. Your comment reminds me of a missionary I provide a little support to. He is in Hawaii and wanted advice for killing feral chickens. He was using a break barrel and having a problem reliably killing them because of resistance from the wings. I suggested a Bullshark in 22. We exchanged emails later and he said it worked great. No more penetration issues. I've shot doves through the wings before and the resistance was not an issue at all for my PCPs. The smallest are a little under 20 fpe but I probably used the 30+ fpes more for doves, just because that was what I was using at that point. With enough fpe, I don't think wings are an issue at all. But if I had one I'd try it. Squirrel shoulders seem tougher to me than dove or pigeon wings.
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So far my experience has been that the squirrels are harder to close enough to shoot but my ammo has no issue with shoulders.. I shot a Dove with a 28gr/55FPE pellet in the wings and watched him take it like a champ… it was the impetus to getting a lighter weight slug but slinging it faster.
 
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JimD said:
I have pretty much given up shooting doves. But I've shot through wings. Your comment reminds me of a missionary I provide a little support to. He is in Hawaii and wanted advice for killing feral chickens. He was using a break barrel and having a problem reliably killing them because of resistance from the wings. I suggested a Bullshark in 22. We exchanged emails later and he said it worked great. No more penetration issues. I've shot doves through the wings before and the resistance was not an issue at all for my PCPs. The smallest are a little under 20 fpe but I probably used the 30+ fpes more for doves, just because that was what I was using at that point. With enough fpe, I don't think wings are an issue at all. But if I had one I'd try it. Squirrel shoulders seem tougher to me than dove or pigeon wings.
Click to expand...
I like to hit them right above or below the shoulder. It’s literally an off switch with the right slug.
 
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I think you have it basically summarized.. you were shooting too slow for accuracy...
but to the beginning of your post you really messed up..
they say happy wife happy life.. I'm not sure that's true but..
there's two rules that will help keep the wife happy and you possibly, likely unhappy
rule #1 wife is right
rule #2 if wife is wrong refer to rule #1
I love my blue heeler and she loves me more than anyone alive other than my parents..
I guess that's why they say a man's best friend is his dog...
now to save you trouble depending on your situation..I tried the happy wife happy life and I didn't have a happy life.. apparently only the older outdated generation are truly happy.. I honestly can say that the youngest girl I know that is reliable and happy is my 80 year old Mom
I think I'm stuck with my dog for happy ness.. something has changed at least here in America and girls are not what they used to be..I was married 22 years and had 2 daughters..
Mark
 
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JungleShooter said:
Trevor,

help me out to make sure I understand you correctly:

● You're shooting "Franco slugs."
➠ Do you have a link, I have never heard of them.

● You don't get pass-throughs, even at 62FPE?
(.25cal, 30gr, 965fps MV: that results in an IV still far above 900fps IV at those ranges — fast enough for expansion in mammals, I would think — but birds?)
I was under the impression that pigeons are so small, and have such little meat on them, that it's not enough for a slug to expand.
➠ Have you frequently recovered expanded slugs in the carcasses?


This is very interesting!
Thanks! 😊

Matthias
Click to expand...
He's way slow on the velocity. That's the big caveat here I think. I've smacked pigeons with 15 fpe 22 and they fly away, 43 fpe(approx 30 fpe on impact) 25 Knocks the moon dust off them like their ghost is left standing where they were without a pass thru with hades.

He's got a slow 30 throwing bricks, so less problems like my 75 fpe 22 that just zings thru with soft javelin slugs, and that deformed 34 grain long body slug is off to Narnia at 800 fps.
 
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JungleShooter said:
Rob,

this is the science I enjoy as well — terminal ballistics.

We're swimming in the same lane.
It's just that you're 23 years ahead of me....! 😃

Swim on!!

Matthias
Click to expand...
I'm just a 40 year old little boy with more expensive toys and a longer reach to the critters now 😂 paddle on!
 
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