The Amazing China airguns.

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OldVet

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Dec 3, 2024
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I'm trying to make this post about the China airguns to see why there ,so run down here on the Nation by several members. I have a Zelos ,vand it's a very accurate PCP.
I remember years ago when Gibson was copied by the China Guitar industry the one I bought was a copy of a Les Paul , and I learned that Gibson actually stole some their ideas to incorporate into their guitars. I'm not Defending China in any way just know that some things that come from there are excellent , and somethings just junk. I'm a patriotic person , and would if I could afford it someday I will buy.a RAW airgun. I also learned from the " $2000 Dollar Gun post that I would like to have a Taipan bullpup , and the new tactical one recently seen on the Industry news.
I wanted a Seneca Dragonfly Mk 2 , but seen some reviews where the owners had troubles with that butterfly linkage breaking down , and thought damn that would be just my luck. There are original Sheridan's , and Benjamin's that are still going strong. I might buy a Dragonfly , and copy that linkage in stainless just to make it last a minute. OV.
 
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Very true OldVet! The Chinese can manufacture as good as anyone, you just have to pay the same cost as the top others lines as it's the same processes and materials. It's their affordable stuff that can't be matched like the U Zelos, Notos.....I luv my RAW and Vet2 and am very blessed to have been able to afford them, I hope someday you will own one or both.
 
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Ranchibi said:
Very true OldVet! The Chinese can manufacture as good as anyone, you just have to pay the same cost as the top others lines as it's the same processes and materials. It's their affordable stuff that can't be matched like the U Zelos, Notos.....I luv my RAW and Vet2 and am very blessed to have been able to afford them, I hope someday you will own one or both.
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Oh I will someday as it's my Hobby , my Obsession my love of airguns.
 
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Snowpeak has always had cool concepts. Their execution is where the money is saved. There is no doubt you can get a great shooter from China. But until you disassemble and reassemble a Taipan next to a P15/Bullshark/P35x or whatever someone is calling the same gun side by side, you’ll never understand the big difference. A fairly consistent reg and a decent barrel is all it takes to make a back yarder happy. So it will get you back and forth to work no problem. When you finally buy a Taipan or Raw you will look forward to going to work and probably take the long way home.
 
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I've said it before, a lot of people would be surprised to learn how much of their "American made" stuff is machined in other countries & just ASSEMBLED here. I couldn't care less where it was made as long as it works correctly & repeatedly & does what I intend it to do. Haven't owned a domestic car in years. Am I unpatriotic? No, just financially practical.
 
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Did you see the recent hoopla about the Italian and French super expensive designer stuff that's actually made in China? The $34,000 designer bags were made in China for $1,200.

China can and does make top quality stuff. They will also make cheap crap if that is what they are contracted to make. The problem is not with the Chinese manufacturers, they are capable, it's with the North American importers who insist on the lowest price possible then sell at a higher price to maximize their profits.

On a business trip to China, during negotiations I was offered 3 quotes for the product: cheap, good and best. The choice was mine to make.

You get what you pay for. You want Dollar-store quality and prices, they will make it if you want.
 
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Vana2 said:
Did you see the recent hoopla about the Italian and French super expensive designer stuff that's actually made in China? The $34,000 designer bags were made in China for $1,200.

China can and does make top quality stuff. They will also make cheap crap if that is what they are contracted to make. The problem is not with the Chinese manufacturers, they are capable, it's with the North American importers who insist on the lowest price possible then sell at a higher price to maximize their profits.

On a business trip to China, during negotiations I was offered 3 quotes for the product: cheap, good and best. The choice was mine to make.

You get what you pay for. You want Dollar-store quality and prices, they will make it if you want.
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To some degree I think the problem is with mainland Chinese culture. The way I had it explained to me was that for generations now in China it has been the case that the government or crooks connected with it might just decide to shut your business down or rip you off at any given time and if they do there is nothing you can do about it. What this has done is fostered a culture of getting what you can when you can because it might not be there tomorrow. This results in Chinese businesses cutting corners and choosing a quick profit whenever they can get it instead of working to build brands with good reputations for quality.
 
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One of my favorite quotes,
attributed to John Ruskin (1819-1900):

“There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person’s lawful prey. It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can’t be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
 
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OldVet said:
I'm trying to make this post about the China airguns to see why there ,so run down here on the Nation by several members. I have a Zelos ,vand it's a very accurate PCP.
I remember years ago when Gibson was copied by the China Guitar industry the one I bought was a copy of a Les Paul , and I learned that Gibson actually stole some their ideas to incorporate into their guitars. I'm not Defending China in any way just know that some things that come from there are excellent , and somethings just junk. I'm a patriotic person , and would if I could afford it someday I will buy.a RAW airgun. I also learned from the " $2000 Dollar Gun post that I would like to have a Taipan bullpup , and the new tactical one recently seen on the Industry news.
I wanted a Seneca Dragonfly Mk 2 , but seen some reviews where the owners had troubles with that butterfly linkage breaking down , and thought damn that would be just my luck. There are original Sheridan's , and Benjamin's that are still going strong. I might buy a Dragonfly , and copy that linkage in stainless just to make it last a minute. OV.
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Old Vet, well, here's from another really old vet (Navy Corpsman from 1966 thru 1977). Anyhow, get that Dragonfly. I've got two, one for me and one for my grandson. We've been shooting them since they arrived on that first boat load over 3 years ago. There have been no problems with them. Yes, the cocking levers are loose and clumsy, but they both shoot great! Give one a try. Orv.
 
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Vana2 said:
Did you see the recent hoopla about the Italian and French super expensive designer stuff that's actually made in China? The $34,000 designer bags were made in China for $1,200.

China can and does make top quality stuff. They will also make cheap crap if that is what they are contracted to make. The problem is not with the Chinese manufacturers, they are capable, it's with the North American importers who insist on the lowest price possible then sell at a higher price to maximize their profits.

On a business trip to China, during negotiations I was offered 3 quotes for the product: cheap, good and best. The choice was mine to make.

You get what you pay for. You want Dollar-store quality and prices, they will make it if you want.
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dollar store is good for cheap birthday cards and the rest is total junk.
Mark
 
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so someone should know where to repost this because I think it is important for everyone on the forum to know,I just don't know where to post it..
I went to Walmart for some compression socks and I thought I'd buy a case of crossman premier hollow point 14 grain pellets.. they happen to be my favorite for plinking at $6 tin..
price still on the shelf but empty.. customer service said they would have more next week, I hope so..
he said that I could order it online so I checked.. not available, out of stock.. along with id say 50% of the other pellets..
so just a heads up.. who's knows what's next.. and I didn't want to post this for ANY political reason just well what good is your $200 or $4000 gun if you don't have any pellets or slugs..
Mark
 
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markhooper said:
so someone should know where to repost this because I think it is important for everyone on the forum to know,I just don't know where to post it..
I went to Walmart for some compression socks and I thought I'd buy a case of crossman premier hollow point 14 grain pellets.. they happen to be my favorite for plinking at $6 tin..
price still on the shelf but empty.. customer service said they would have more next week, I hope so..
he said that I could order it online so I checked.. not available, out of stock.. along with id say 50% of the other pellets..
so just a heads up.. who's knows what's next.. and I didn't want to post this for ANY political reason just well what good is your $200 or $4000 gun if you don't have any pellets or slugs..
Mark
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I don't know about their current availability, but I've had good luck with both H&N FTT's and Norma Domes and both are very reasonably priced. The H&N's seem to be more accurate in most of my rifles, but the Normas aren't bad pellets by any means. Last summer Pyramyd was selling the variety packs of Normas for $10. In .177 in bulk it worked out to about 0.6 cents per pellet.

If you get them from Pyramyd then every fourth tin is free. Combine that with whatever promotion they happen to be running and free shipping and you can usually get decent pellets in .177 for under $0.02 per shot and under $0.03 per shot in .22.

What's going on with the CPHP's is likely due to Crosman being bought out by Gamo. Rumor has it that the old CPHP's are being replaced with Gamo hollow points. Supposedly they're keeping the Crosman Premier name but the pellets are now made in Spain and appear to be identical to Gamo pellets.
 
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Sawney Bean said:
I don't know about their current availability, but I've had good luck with both H&N FTT's and Norma Domes and both are very reasonably priced. The H&N's seem to be more accurate in most of my rifles, but the Normas aren't bad pellets by any means. Last summer Pyramyd was selling the variety packs of Normas for $10. In .177 in bulk it worked out to about 0.6 cents per pellet.

If you get them from Pyramyd then every fourth tin is free. Combine that with whatever promotion they happen to be running and free shipping and you can usually get decent pellets in .177 for under $0.02 per shot and under $0.03 per shot in .22.

What's going on with the CPHP's is likely due to Crosman being bought out by Gamo. Rumor has it that the old CPHP's are being replaced with Gamo hollow points. Supposedly they're keeping the Crosman Premier name but the pellets are now made in Spain and appear to be identical to Gamo pellets.
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I've had good success with the crossman just for plinking, I like the JTS 25 grain pellets better than the JSB 25 grain pellets.. yes pyramid air has a good thing going with buy three and get a free one..
but before I order a few as sleeves I'll check with Montana Airguns..he's a great guy, sold me a adapter and Donny FL shogun moderator for less than anywhere else, and at the time he had a killer price for JTS 25 grain pellets..
small business, no website other than a Facebook and I don't use Facebook..
if you want to check him out PM me if you can't find him and I'll try to find his number..I normally just text him, make a deal and order..he ships right away and just had me mail a check.. reminds me of the good old days when you could trust people..
I think towards the end of last year he was running a killer price for the JTS compressor too.
Mark
 
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markhooper said:
so someone should know where to repost this because I think it is important for everyone on the forum to know,I just don't know where to post it..
I went to Walmart for some compression socks and I thought I'd buy a case of crossman premier hollow point 14 grain pellets.. they happen to be my favorite for plinking at $6 tin..
price still on the shelf but empty.. customer service said they would have more next week, I hope so..
he said that I could order it online so I checked.. not available, out of stock.. along with id say 50% of the other pellets..
so just a heads up.. who's knows what's next.. and I didn't want to post this for ANY political reason just well what good is your $200 or $4000 gun if you don't have any pellets or slugs..
Mark
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I agree. This is going to be the big problem in the short term. Empty shelves. I went to Dollar General today and they were almost out of soap. Things are getting bad when I can't buy a bar of Ivory.
 
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Justaguy said:
I agree. This is going to be the big problem in the short term. Empty shelves. I went to Dollar General today and they were almost out of soap. Things are getting bad when I can't buy a bar of Ivory.
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you mean we don't even make ivory soap in America anymore..
out country is in a disaster, hopefully we recover..

this is not intended to be political so please remove if there's any issues..

hopefully this is not the start of the same thing as we had in COVID.. like 2.0

if it ever happens again and mask's are required I'm in very deep trouble because most of my hearing is reading lips.. in spite of hearing aids.. I didn't have them before COVID and everything was mumbling.. now even with them I can only hear the phone if the blue tooth works.
Mark
 
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Vetmx said:
Snowpeak has always had cool concepts. Their execution is where the money is saved. There is no doubt you can get a great shooter from China. But until you disassemble and reassemble a Taipan next to a P15/Bullshark/P35x or whatever someone is calling the same gun side by side, you’ll never understand the big difference. A fairly consistent reg and a decent barrel is all it takes to make a back yarder happy. So it will get you back and forth to work no problem. When you finally buy a Taipan or Raw you will look forward to going to work and probably take the long way home.
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I respect this is the way many people think of the situation but it isn't my experience. I do not have a Taipan, my closest equivalent is my Caiman X. My Caiman is better machined for sure. It has a better trigger too and I bet the Taipan is better than the Caiman. But I'd rather shoot one of my P35s most days. The 22 is as accurate. They are all a pound or more lighter. The cocking is better on the Caiman too but it needed a lot more attention early than the P35s. My point is just I see good and not so good in both and usually prefer the P35s. I'm blessed to be able to afford what I want but I find the SPA guns good enough.
 
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I was a Startup and Test Engineer in China at a manufacturing facility from green field to full production.

One of the Civil Engineers was a woman from Inner Mongolia. She was educated at the Colorado School of Mines and was an excellent engineer.

Come Chinese New Year we would take the bullet train to Shanghai, the Maglev to the airport, she would fly home, meet her brothers and ride to her families' yurt on a horse.

Her goal was to save enough money in order to go back to being a Nomad.

I found that the individual Chinese are as diverse as individual Americans.
 
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markhooper said:
you mean we don't even make ivory soap in America anymore..
out country is in a disaster, hopefully we recover..

this is not intended to be political so please remove if there's any issues..

hopefully this is not the start of the same thing as we had in COVID.. like 2.0

if it ever happens again and mask's are required I'm in very deep trouble because most of my hearing is reading lips.. in spite of hearing aids.. I didn't have them before COVID and everything was mumbling.. now even with them I can only hear the phone if the blue tooth works.
Mark
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I think it's shaping up to be that way. I live in a port city and the number of container ships are way down.

On a bright note however, I'm guessing that there might be some bargains out there on shipping containers soon. They make fantastic secure storage buildings.
 
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