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FX FX Impact M3 another attempt to fix POI shift

@Swish, yes the whole gun and all of its pieces is just asking for consistency issues. If it was a full chassis gun then things would be better. Then slug and pellet sales would be cut in half. The airgun world needs the Impact. I would bet my house that no other gun model has sent as much lead across a chronograph than an Impact. And none ever will.
 
I am always amazed at how many people have shifting POI problems with their Impacts and yet no one seems to have figured out why.
I won't claim to have figured it out either but I've always been a little suspicious of the power plenum.
I've always noticed a little bit of play in the threads where the "stem" screws into the plenum. In my mind, this play would transfer into the upper rail/spine of the Impact directly above it and possibly cause some flex.
I've never seen it mentioned before and I'm curious of what you guys think about it.
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^^^^^^Exactly this^^^^^^^👍

From memory, the barrel passes through the front block ( which is where the scope is mounted) and is only held concentric with a couple of o rings, then is attached to the rear butt block by a thumbscrew. The only connection between the front and rear blocks are the top rail made from a flat section of aluminium (approximately 25mm x 5mm) which adds little to torsional stiffness. Then there is the plenum, however only one end has a firm connection to the block, the other end is a push fit with an o ring for the seal and a grubscrew to hold it in place.
By holding the front pistol grip and the rear butt grip it is not difficult to twist and flex the gun, only a guess but I would say that’s probably not a good thing for consistent poi placement.

There was two other issue that I could never resolve, reg creep, this was only slight but leave the gun for a hour or so and the pressure would rise. The other was valve sticking, again after the gun had been left for a while. The effect of both of these was the first pellet would always travel slower than the rest. Dry firing one shot stopped this happening but none of my other guns have a problem even if unused for weeks or even months.

IMO the impact is a great concept (which is why there are many copies) poorly executed.
 
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^^^^^^Exactly this^^^^^^^👍

From memory, the barrel passes through the front block ( which is where the scope is mounted) and is only held concentric with a couple of o rings, then is attached to the rear butt block by a thumbscrew. The only connection between the front and rear blocks are the top rail made from a flat section of aluminium (approximately 25mm x 5mm) which adds little to torsional stiffness. Then there is the plenum, however only one end has a firm connection to the block, the other end is a push fit with an o ring for the seal and a grubscrew to hold it in place.
By holding the front pistol grip and the rear butt grip it is not difficult to twist and flex the gun, only a guess but I would say that’s probably not a good thing for consistent poi placement.

There was two other issue that I could never resolve, reg creep, this was only slight but leave the gun for a hour or so and the pressure would rise. The other was valve sticking, again after the gun had been left for a while. The effect of both of these was the first pellet would always travel slower than the rest. Dry firing one shot stopped this happening but none of my other guns have a problem even if unused for weeks or even months.

IMO the impact is a great concept (which is why there are many copies) poorly executed.
I have fixed the regulator creep issues with better regulator pistons. Also fixed the issue of 1st slow fps shot by making a modified front part of the plenum. In OEM plenum, there is the issue of O ring extrusion that the revised design successfully fixed.

I have made the top rail of around 20mm thickness instead of OEM that is around 5 or 6mm.

I am moving forward.

Bhaur
 
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Mubhaur, did your 20mm thick top rail make any difference or any improvement in POI shift?
I really appreciate all of the time and effort you put into the Impact platform and your willingness to share it with us.
Yes as the thicker top rail eliminated the flex, it helps in fixing the wandering POI.
 
. Also fixed the issue of 1st slow fps shot by making a modified front part of the plenum.

I am moving forward.

Bhaur
Yes but don’t forget I’m only 12fpe which means there is very little spring load required to knock the valve open. Any sticking of the valve stem o ring leads to a massive power drop. The longer the gun was left, the greater the velocity difference, Target shooting was never really an issue but while hunting it may be up to an hour between shots, so this valve stem issue (and to continual poi shift) made the gun unfit for purpose.

Keep up the good work 👍

Bb
 
Boys and girls this issue with POI shift is not just the Impact, it is across the whole FX line. Some have it more than others. I have suffered this issue on my Crown from day 1. I really like the FX guns. They are very high quality, but this issue has been around a long time and has not been resolved or even admitted to by FX and that's the real issue. I now use a a CF tube around the barrel and a clamp between bottle and shroud. They have really helped but I must be very careful not handle the gun by the shroud or bump it in any way.
 
My take on it is, that - many - people doing a mistake during assembling the gun back from bits and pieces, and not knowing they induced stress in between (just a second ago) lose components, and right away start the torquing sequence on screws ... and right next just power up with air ... and that will make the Impacts scream like baby's.
It is not enough to be a google mechanic, but need a common sense how assembling things works, and how to care about things like Impacts.
Sorry, I didn't meant to offend anybody with this my comment above, you take it or leave it.
Second, if I don't like something I am getting rid of it at a first corner... in recent years I've tried over 15 scopes until today and I am keeping only 3.
 
My take on it is, that - many - people doing a mistake during assembling the gun back from bits and pieces, and not knowing they induced stress in between (just a second ago) lose components, and right away start the torquing sequence on screws ... and right next just power up with air ... and that will make the Impacts scream like baby's.
It is not enough to be a google mechanic, but need a common sense how assembling things works, and how to care about things like Impacts.
Sorry, I didn't meant to offend anybody with this my comment above, you take it or leave it.
Second, if I don't like something I am getting rid of it at a first corner... in recent years I've tried over 15 scopes until today and I am keeping only 3.
I'm sure in some cases you may be correct, but I assure you there are far too many instances having been reported by too many very experienced shooters and engineers to disregard this very real issue. I was going to purchase an M3 last year and changed my mind because FX is NOT dealing with this issue.
 
Yes but don’t forget I’m only 12fpe which means there is very little spring load required to knock the valve open. Any sticking of the valve stem o ring leads to a massive power drop. The longer the gun was left, the greater the velocity difference, Target shooting was never really an issue but while hunting it may be up to an hour between shots, so this valve stem issue (and to continual poi shift) made the gun unfit for purpose.

Keep up the good work 👍

Bb
After following modification, my Impact doesn't give low fps even on the very 1st shot at 12 ftlb.

 
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I'm sure in some cases you may be correct, but I assure you there are far too many instances having been reported by too many very experienced shooters and engineers to disregard this very real issue. I was going to purchase an M3 last year and changed my mind because FX is NOT dealing with this issue.
Agree. You can make the problem worse by assembling an Impact on a bind but what about the Crown, Maverick, Wildcat and Dreamline guys? My Dreamtac Compact put every Impact I ever owned to shame when it came to POI problems. Not accuracy problems, it was accurate but my scope got a workout. The gun is simple, not a bunch of pressurized sections fighting with each other. I wasn’t on hallucinogens. Never hamfisted anything on the gun. That thing never shot in the same spot day to day. Machined a solid barrel for it, haven’t touched the scope since. There is something going on. If customers demand modular guns with a bunch of cheap options to switch calibers and projectiles, this just might be a side effect.

So the next step is like bigHUN talked about. It’s time to really dot your I’s and cross your T’s when you mess with the gun. Especially if you’re not a that’s good enough kind of guy.