Newbie wants to skip the normal 1st airgun starter gun

I bought a semi as my first pcp. This was back maybe in July of 2020. I had a lot of fun with it, but good thing I got a .22 as I probably shot a tin of 500 every day I shot until one day it jammed. I had it sent out to get warranted so I was jonesing to shoot so bad that I finally got a fx impact. Boy here I thought the sk19 was acurate. My sk19 (which is the predecessor to the rattler if you don't already know) would do 1/4 " groups at 50 yards if I did my job but the impact would do even better and just stack them to 50 and the majority of the groups would stay below moa at hundred. I never still to this day take my sk19 to the range. Yet I still have it to shoot rats at night. Anyways I'm thinking if your rattler jams you will be in a world of hurt trying to repair it as opposed to something more common. There's not a lot complaints with the rattler, then again there is not a ton of support if something were to go wrong either, at least it is a American based company. Oh by the way I never had to send in my impact for repairs and anything that happened to it I repaired it with the help of this forum, fx, and you tube.

My advice is if you get a high end gun, get one that you can service yourself.

Oh it's a good thing you got money because I fell into the rabbit hole bad. I probably spent over 30 k on airguns and support equipment in the first 2 years and my crap isn't considered anything out of the ordinary.

Does my sk19 looks similar to the rattler?


Does the bottle make my butt look big?


Allen

@Timmiecat if you are still looking at a western AoA has a couple used ones.

What happened to the OP? Hope we didn't spook him\her, (insert pronoun of choice) off of buying what
they wanted.

Doc

Timmiecat said:

Great feedback from everyone, but let me clarify my situation a little better.
I do have unlimited access to my brother's compressor and scuba tank, which is at his home on ten acres where we shoot. Sound is not a problem out here in the gold country where you can fire off a powder burner legally.
I am a retired tool and die maker for the aerospace industry, so I have certain skills that allow me to fix almost anything except for poor design. I have taken an interest in hammerless design for airguns and the Sidewinder is a piece of engineering that I want to explore first hand as the information is limited as to how it works. I will disassemble it after thorough testing and just having fun.
I don't really care about the cost of the gun as long as it is well designed and machined within tolerances. I have more money than I need to live and no children or any other relatives other than two older brothers, so I'm not worried about spending someone's inheritance.
Is there any feedback on AEA SF Sniper? It is one I am looking at, but it is rather low energy. Quality is most important to me, so Hatsan Blitz is a no.

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AEA has as bad a reputation as Hatsan. You can check the various threads here about them, but if build quality is a primary concern for you then I'd rule them out.

I personally have found the Sidewinder delivers excellent accuracy with 1 MOA, (1/2" ctc), at 50 yards being an average size group. The trigger isn't anything close to a match trigger, but I'd consider it better than average. The Huben K1 has a slightly better trigger than the Sidewinder, but if you want a really good trigger then you'll need to go to a manual action.

I'd recommend picking up a couple of decommissioned SCBA tanks as well. They're way better than scuba tanks for charging airguns and where I live they're dirt cheap. There's a guy in Seattle who sells them for $50 each. You should plan on muzzle adaptor and a moderator too. I've have best luck with a Huma Mod50. And if money is no object, get a few extra magazines.

@Timmiecat If you don’t get a semi-auto and decide to go for a repeater, I recommend not getting an AAA Evol and instead ordering an AAA Slayer in .357 or .452. The manufacturer has communicated to me that the Slayers will be available again this year likely in the spring. With your budget and criteria I recommend that you forgo purchasing an Evol. This is coming from an Evol owner.

As mentioned, hopefully you meant to say scba instead of scuba tanks as scuba tanks are not generally rated very high psi and would not work for what you are wanting. You can check the rating on the bottles. But sounds like you have a good start.

Allen

The FX Power Pup is a great plinker.

I would stay away from anything semi auto.
And personally if i was not going to do any hunting then i would stay with a lesser caliber, CUZ what i pay for 400 PCS .177 slugs, well in .30 caliber you only get 150 for the same price, and with a SA rifle those are soon gone.

Also you have to think about air use, if you are filling from a dive bottle, and you are not able to fill that yourself, well you deplete it faster with a big caliber and semi auto, and then you have to go to the shop to get your big bottle filled again.
I can shoot a lot in a month and still by the end have enough air in my 300 BAR / 12 L bottle, but mind you that is for shooting connected to the big bottle at the bench, if i was to fill rifle bottle, disconnect and then do some shooting, well when the big bottle are only able to give 150-170 BAR then you do not get very many shots on your not tethered rifle, and sure as hell not if you shoot a big caliber gun with a +150 BAR regulated pressure.
Or maybe a unregulated big caliber, in which case you just need all the power you can get, which is more than the 150 - 170 bar in the bottle in the end of the month for me.

Shooting .177 i can make do with 90 - 100 BAR in regulated pressure, so 150 - 170 BAR on my big bottle are still plenty over the pressure i shoot with.

And in the summer time i can easy shoot 1600 shots in a week ( 2 trips to the " range " ) so for 1 fill of my 12 L big dive bottle, quite a lot of shooting in .177 caliber, and accuracy,,well out to 100 yards with a accurate rifle tuned well, no problem shooting really small groups around 1" in size.

I would prefer .22 but my masters say i can not have that as i am not to be trusted with such massive powers.

This is .177 / 13 grain Zan slugs at 86 Meters / 92 yards.
Those are 2" targets.

Peashooter said:

I would stay away from anything semi auto.
And personally if i was not going to do any hunting then i would stay with a lesser caliber, CUZ what i pay for 400 PCS .177 slugs, well in .30 caliber you only get 150 for the same price, and with a SA rifle those are soon gone.

Also you have to think about air use, if you are filling from a dive bottle, and you are not able to fill that yourself, well you deplete it faster with a big caliber and semi auto, and then you have to go to the shop to get your big bottle filled again.
I can shoot a lot in a month and still by the end have enough air in my 300 BAR / 12 L bottle, but mind you that is for shooting connected to the big bottle at the bench, if i was to fill rifle bottle, disconnect and then do some shooting, well when the big bottle are only able to give 150-170 BAR then you do not get very many shots on your not tethered rifle, and sure as hell not if you shoot a big caliber gun with a +150 BAR regulated pressure.
Or maybe a unregulated big caliber, in which case you just need all the power you can get, which is more than the 150 - 170 bar in the bottle in the end of the month for me.

Shooting .177 i can make do with 90 - 100 BAR in regulated pressure, so 150 - 170 BAR on my big bottle are still plenty over the pressure i shoot with.

And in the summer time i can easy shoot 1600 shots in a week ( 2 trips to the " range " ) so for 1 fill of my 12 L big dive bottle, quite a lot of shooting in .177 caliber, and accuracy,,well out to 100 yards with a accurate rifle tuned well, no problem shooting really small groups around 1" in size.

I would prefer .22 but my masters say i can not have that as i am not to be trusted with such massive powers.

This is .177 / 13 grain Zan slugs at 86 Meters / 92 yards.
Those are 2" targets.

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I find that if I buy in bulk that I can get good .177 pellets, (H&N FTT), for around $0.02 each. In .22 I pay just under 3 cents per shot and in .30 I pay about 10 cents. I don't shoot slugs, so I can't speak as to their cost. If I want the best pellets I might pay four or five cents each in .177 or .22 and maybe 11 or 12 cents in .30. I also have the option of buying very cheap pellets in .177 or .22 with CPHPs being around 1.5 cent each in .177. They are all dirt cheap when you compare any of them to powder burners however, so from the OP's perspective even .30 JSBs are going to be budget friendly.

One thing about shooting .30s however is they go through a lot more air, so while a Sidewinder should give you well over 100 full power shots in .22, I find myself needing a recharge after 5-6 mags in .30 and that big 580cc bottle takes time to fill off my GX CS4.

I'd really like to see what full-auto fire with one is like in a smaller caliber. In .30 the best I can do are controlled bursts that open up more the longer I hold in the trigger. With a tight grip I can keep 3 shots within 3" at 50 yards, but I'd really like to see what a .22 shooting at 30 fpe could do.

If it really has to be a semi auto the OP should look at the Edgun Leshy 2. It has removable magazines (which Hubens do not have) and is available in a range of calibers. I also agree with the other opinions against 30 caliber. Unless you need the fpe for something, a 22 caliber would make more sense in my opinion. I have a 177 and I like to shoot it because of the shot count but it gets blown around worse by the wind and seems a little weak on even squirrels. It works but they don't drop as quickly as a ~30 fpe 22. Shot count follows fpe closely, however, so you have to decide where you want to be. I've only seen the reviews of Edguns but they get high marks for quality of manufacture. As you go up in caliber the variety of available ammo goes down as well as the cost goes up. So even a 25 caliber had many more options in ammo than a 30. 22 has many more than 25. Not sure 177 has that much more than 22, however.

Since the OP is somewhat new to PCPs I will also add that all 5 of my PCPs, each of which was under $500, seems to have pretty good design and manufacturing. They do not break but occasionally require a new O-ring or two. But I think all PCPs need O-rings on occasion. I am a retired mechanical engineer. I do not like some of the places where my Avenger uses plastic but my P35s and Prod seem fine to me. I would not be afraid to try out kind of the low to middle priced guns if you see one that seems interesting. Snowpeak (SPA) also makes a semi auto that you can probably get from Krale for under $1000. My P35s are SPA guns as is the Notos and many other guns on the reasonable end of the price spectrum. I think they are solidly made and dependable but I don't think they are more functionally made than what I would call high end.

Timmiecat said:

Great feedback from everyone, but let me clarify my situation a little better.
I do have unlimited access to my brother's compressor and scuba tank, which is at his home on ten acres where we shoot. Sound is not a problem out here in the gold country where you can fire off a powder burner legally.
I am a retired tool and die maker for the aerospace industry, so I have certain skills that allow me to fix almost anything except for poor design. I have taken an interest in hammerless design for airguns and the Sidewinder is a piece of engineering that I want to explore first hand as the information is limited as to how it works. I will disassemble it after thorough testing and just having fun.
I don't really care about the cost of the gun as long as it is well designed and machined within tolerances. I have more money than I need to live and no children or any other relatives other than two older brothers, so I'm not worried about spending someone's inheritance.
Is there any feedback on AEA SF Sniper? It is one I am looking at, but it is rather low energy. Quality is most important to me, so Hatsan Blitz is a no.

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I understand what you are looking for and I think some of the other replies do not really understand. If you are used to shooting regular firearms as I used to, I understand as I am also in CA so I know the issues facing shooters. Others have tried to say take your time go to lower power smaller calibers but that is not what a lot of more traditional conventional firearm shooters would want.

You choices are a bit limited as the semi-auto is a newer technology so there are less out there but more are likely to come eventually. For a .30 cal, I think the SK19 is one of the best https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/lcs-air-arms-sk-19-30-caliber-air-rifle-review/
and as someone else mentioned the Huben but it is .25 caliber. Another thing you might like, not a rifle but a pistol is the Huben GK1 .25 semi-auto pistol as it gives you the feel of a more powerful handgun air pistol. The AEA options are not a good choice unless you really research and find someone, a tuner whom has created better parts and familiar with honing and machining the issues with those more lower quality built riffles. Also I would stick to shooting pellets, lubing them to prevent issues on a semi-auto for reliability.

I forgot to mention one other brand Evanix, out of Korea; they are to me a middle of the road and could be consideration as they do make semi-auto .30. They are known for high power but I think a little behind on latest technology as they are not as efficient with their air and are not a brand to try to modify, just use it as stock. I think I am more in tune with your desires as coming from firearms you do not want a low caliber .177 or .22 for sure and do not want a bolt action as you would see that as going backwards. You will pay a price for that right now as that is cutting edge for this aspect of guns...

30 cal. more fun hunting and hitting targets made me smile even if it's overkill. pellets don't cost much.

Look at reply #45,
Here is a good example of one of the potential people you would need to consult with if you dare go down the AEA rabbit hole. Those are cutting edge as far as doing things first to market but they are lower quality, not machined as well Chinese manufacturing so I have heard some say that they have resolved the issues that came stock with them but I cannot attest if that is really true? You can see as his picture shows the kind of things you are facing with that brand. You are relying on either custom parts or at least custom machining to solve the production shortcuts they used to keep the price lower. Chinese manufacturing is primarily manufacturing job shops that make whatever and however a client dictates, they can be good but it is always up to the company creating the specifications and quality control of those manufacturing companies; the reality is a high quality semi .30 right now is going to be costly more like $2K price range for a rifle not a $1K gun or $1250 for the Huben GK1 pistol. For closer to the $1K you can get high quality .30 .357 side lever actions like the FX and others but not semi-auto right now...

AEA makes the 2023 and older BW S45 in ..357 have a creative pump action to allow virtually semi-auto use with their side lever and now in 2024 they have the new "Nitro" version which is semi-auto from .357 & .457, all the way to .50 but that is so new whom knows what the issues are and again it could possibly be resolved with a custom tuner but at your own risk... https://www.bintacllc.com/product-page/new-release-2024-b-w-s45-nitro-357-457-495cal-preorder-only
Even I find that cool and tempting but I do not want to be a guinea pig given their track record for putting somethings so new without perfecting them. They do keep improving as they have had new V2 versions of the Terminator .357 but still there are enough bad experiences that you better really research them carefully if you dare. I would stick to more expensive smaller caliber semi-autos in the .25 to .30 as there are quality options there that are proven like Huben and SK.

First off the OP needs to learn on the curve that selling his PBs and especially beloved heirloom quality PBs that will still be useful and desirable weapons 100 years from now that buying the flavor of the day air rifle that will be forgotten, worthless and unloved two years from now, if not two months, is an endless path of loss and sorrow.

Get a Benjamin Marauder, learn how to tune it, shoot it and acquire the support equipment and then step over into the Euro guns or higher $ North American guns and skip entirely the CCC (Cheap, China, CXXp) guns. And the Turkish stuff is somewhere betwixt. Air guns are not a substitute for a PB fix.

3Crows said:

First off the OP needs to learn on the curve that selling his PBs and especially beloved heirloom quality PBs that will still be useful and desirable weapons 100 years from now that buying the flavor of the day air rifle that will be forgotten, worthless and unloved two years from now, if not two months, is an endless path of loss and sorrow.

Get a Benjamin Marauder, learn how to tune it, shoot it and acquire the support equipment and then step over into the Euro guns or higher $ North American guns and skip entirely the CCC (Cheap, China, CXXp) guns. And the Turkish stuff is somewhere betwixt. Air guns are not a substitute for a PB fix.

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That is good information to ensure he knows resale value is not great on any of the airgun market no matter what make, but as he said money is not the issue. Here in CA just to buy fire arm ammo you need to register and provide extensive paperwork not to mention we are in the most anti gun state in the US. He already has access to a compressor to fill whatever he purchases so he has access to the most expensive thing to learn the fill station, other than that if you owned firearms, tuning an air gun is not that hard as you practically have zero maintenance in comparison to a firearm. He wants big power and ammo cost is not a concern and he wants something more closer to the fun of shooting a firearm. I get that as I am in the same state and can relate.

Air rifle and air pistols are way cheaper than a firearm and have very little maintenance which is a big plus for me. People whom are air gun owners talk about the cost of ammo, that is insignificant to a firearm as that ammo is way more expensive than the most fancy pellet or slug by a crazy margin and you need a background check to buy it in CA. If he has come from firearms which he stated then $2k is no big deal to spend as the savings in ammo would be like a one or 2 year payback compared to a firearm in cost. He will have a blast as long as he buys something like the SK19 .30 or the Huben K1 .25 and probably get hooked on air guns but not if he buys a small caliber .177 or .22 as firearm owners generally would never be impressed with those small calibers. More semi-autos will come out and eventually there will be more options but the few that are out there are good, reliable and would satisfy his love to shoot...

It does seem like a lot of the advice here is “don’t buy what you say you want because it’s not the kind of airgun I like.” I get that when it’s a 17 year old kid asking whether he should get a Hatsan 135 or a Zeus, but this is an adult with experience with firearms, sufficient funds, a place to shoot and an existing charging apparatus. If he wants a semiauto airgun I can see no good reason not to steer him to the best one he can afford.

Timmiecat said:

Hello compressed air enthusiasts,
I am new to the PCP world and wanting to dive in to precision rifle for target practice and plinking. Semi auto, 30 plus caliber, that will work well with slugs and pellets. I already have a Sig Sauer MCX Gen 2 with PCP conversion and a Ruger break barrel pellet gun. I have many powder charged guns, but here in California, it is difficult and expensive to aquire ammunition and I don't want to use up my supplies of conventional ammo for practice and plinking.
My question is, is the Western Airguns Sidewinder appropriate for a PCP newbie, or is there some sort of learning curve that I am unaware of and I should get a "Starter" rifle first? I'm not new to target shooting, just PCP guns.
Cost is not a problem, I just want to sell my unfired Colt Python St. PAUL POLICE 125th anniversary 357 magnum first. I have several unfired collectors items that I can't even enjoy without depreciating the value $1000 just to fire it for the first time. Google the above mentioned Python, it's too beautiful to use!
Any thoughts on my choice of first real PCP?
Timmiecat

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TC you are jumping into that Rabbit Hole® head first with your wish list. Personally I'd stay miles away from the semi's, they are nothing like a pew-pew for reliability...yet. For punching holes and rattling cans .30 is over kill and expensive. Get your pocket book lighter with a .22 or .25. I can safely say that you can be safe with one of the major brands, all have their admirers and detractors, sometimes both in the same person. If you want a one and done, which is pretty rare, it's possible but you'll always try for that little bit more. I happen to like the FX Maverick, have two of them a Compact in .22 and a 'VP' with a 600mm barrel, you can putze with them until you're blue in the face then either get them spot on or give up in frustration. I have a Sapsan that is a fun backyard gun, as long as you ignore the regulator. I also have a few pistols and Jefferson State Air Rifle that has the makings of a heck of a gun, I did have a regulator issue that has been fixed, I'm awaiting its return.

You will spend a small fortune on finding THE GOLDEN PELLET that your gun LOVES, then, when you order more, they'll be from a different die and won't shoot the same.

As people above have said, figure out your air supply, that'll cost as much as a gun...or three. There is a forum for that.

Being behind enemy lines such as you, I understand the frustration with the inability to get ammo. I missed the freedom days.

HK

Sawney Bean said:

It does seem like a lot of the advice here is “don’t buy what you say you want because it’s not what the kind of airgun I like.” I get that when it’s a 17 year old kid asking whether he should get a Hatsan 135 or a Zeus, but this is an adult with experience with firearms, sufficient funds, a place to shoot and an existing charging apparatus. If he wants a semiauto airgun I can see no good reason not to steer him to the best one he can afford.

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On one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, firearms shooters notoriously arrive wanting to spend untold money for airguns with unreasonable specifications and accuracy like “I don’t need 1/2 moa at 100, just one moa will do”. Or my other favorite “what’s a good hand pump, for my new magnum power .30 airgun.” When expectations don’t meet physics we do owe them a reasonable understanding of what airguns can really do.

I personally have zero interest in semi auto or full auto airguns. But that doesn’t mean that it can’t be enjoyable shooting for him.

I do have my concerns that it would involve a whole lot of time reloading magazines and not much time actually shooting. It’s not like you can buy strip fed pellets and slugs.

dgeesaman said:

On one hand, I agree.

On the other hand, firearms shooters notoriously arrive wanting to spend untold money for airguns with unreasonable specifications and accuracy like “I don’t need 1/2 moa at 100, just one moa will do”. Or my other favorite “what’s a good hand pump, for my new magnum power .30 airgun.” When expectations don’t meet physics we do owe them a reasonable understanding of what airguns can really do.

I personally have zero interest in semi auto or full auto airguns. But that doesn’t mean that it can’t be enjoyable shooting for him.

I do have my concerns that it would involve a whole lot of time reloading magazines and not much time actually shooting. It’s not like you can buy strip fed pellets and slugs.

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Reloading Sidewinder magazines is actually very quick and easy. They’re by far the easiest airgun magazines I have ever used. The big problem with them is that they’re ridiculously expensive. AOA was selling them for $150 each, but now they’ve raised that to $160 and AOA doesn’t do free shipping.

Reloading the fixed revolving cylinders on airguns like the Huben is way more of a pain, but you don’t ever have to buy them.