Have the springers changed in the past 20 years

I think scopes have just gotten better. I've had 1 scope go bad out of about 10 over 30 something springers that I shoot pretty frequently.

Which springer? Mt TX200 is essentially the same as 20 years ago.

Depends on the springer?

Absolutely, despite hardly any mechanical changes,,,the prices have almost doubled.

muddydogz said:

Absolutely, despite hardly any mechanical changes,,,the prices have almost doubled.

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That's not really bad. A box of spaghetti by me was ¢99 in 2020. Now it's $3.00.

The quality has gone down and the price has gone up. There are exceptions but this is what I feel in general. With Dr. Beeman out of the game it turned to all quantity and less quality. Some of the most sought after springer there are today came from the late 70's, and 80's.
Scope quality has certainly increased and the prices for that quality have dropped. A $300 scope today is as good as a $1500 scope 20 years ago.

Some of the best from the last 30 years are no longer available. Sadly.
FWB 124 was never really a scope eater.

airgunmike56 said:

I have not picked up or shot a springer in 30 or more years , Have they changed any? Or they still eating scopes , Not sure I want to buy one . I sold my FWB 124 a few years back just because I never shot it, After all this time have the guns been tamed ,
Just thinking,
Mike

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Far as I could tell, no major springer innovation. Just minor innovation...like the Norica Omnia a "newish" recoilless design.
Hampered by sub-par trigger and less than stellar accuracy.

Scopes are definitely getting better for Piston Field Target. More choices, more robust, better quality, Falcon, Sightron, Delta Stryker, Hawke, (March? Nikko Stirling?, from reviews, no actual experience)


But some movement with recoilless scope mounts to challenge the sportsmatch dampa mount.
Diana came out with the bullseye ZR scope mount in 2016?

I've been at this for around 20 years (mostly shooting springers)...one major improvement in my opinion are tune kits. More choices, better quality.

Pellets?...no clue. But huge innovation in Slugs (more for the high power PCP and not for most springers)

--Edit
Still waiting for someone to redneck the Norica Omnia to see if a R9 action can be made to fit in there. (HW 50? R1?) Imagine a recoilless R9...or a recoilless TX200

The big airgun technological changes have been in PCPs. I think the technological push and marketing on springers in the USA has been cheaper and more powerful especially when China entered the picture. So going the opposite route of tamed. In my opinion, the high priced springers of the 70s and 80s do not seem to have changed much. Agree that tuning has improved. Seals have improved. I guess the cheap springer technology improved enough so you get decent accuracy with the cheap China springers. The XISCO copies of the RWS guns was another improvement but maybe not for RWS/Diana if they were not compensated for their design being copied. In firearms, I know that barrel technology has gotten a lot better that even a cheap rifle often will shoot 1 MOA so assume that has happened with airgun barrels. Thinking the Sig Sauer ASP was a big technical leap in USA manufactured airguns but that did not continue.

airgunmike56 said:

I guess the air spring the nitro piston did not take off , I have watched the technological jump in the PCPs each year with all kind of improvements , Triggers Valves and hammer systems , I still got a copy of a TX 200 thats worth nothing I think I will just hang on to it and may shoot it someday, I still got my 1960 Sheridan I got to send off to fix, Maybe a steroid kit.
Mike

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The gas ram took off big time but they're mostly in budget guns that fly off the shelf at Walmart.

Springers are on the way out as a commercial force with R&D involved, no two questions about it. Apart from the Omnia (a missed opportunity, I think) there hasn't been any really new springers in recent years. But lots of things have happened in the past 20.

The Walther LGV came out in 2012. While it didn't introduce any new concepts per se, it combined all the best tricks of the trade in a way that really did tame the spring gun.

My LGV shot like a well-tuned gun straight out of the box, with dazzling accuracy, zero twang or buzz, close to no recoil, very mild report etc. I wish I hadn't wasted my time and money on a HW95 and gotten the LGV straight off.

On the power side of things, Diana came out with the 350 Mag in 2000, the 460 Mag in 2007, and the 350 Mag Ntec in 2014 (not 100 % sure of the last date). These were progressively more and more powerful spring guns that were also high-accuracy & high-quality.

In the same time frame, Hatsan introduced affordable super magnums in the 125 and the 135, reaching never-before-seen power levels in mass-produced spring guns. In short, the 90's had the Patriot, the Theobens and the HW90. The 2000's saw plenty more options to choose from.

Diana also introduced scaled-down versions of their magnums in the 2000's, including the D46 and the D430. These have been discontinued, as has the SIG ASP, the latest comer (and goer), and the only new American spring gun in eons. I'm not sure when Weihrauch came up with the scaled-down HW77, the HW57.

Diana's latest springer entry, the 34 EMS (2021-), has been re-designed / re-defined from the ground up, and has features like adjustable barrel shims to suit the sight preferences of the owner. This is new, as far as factory-spec guns go.

There have been changes, just not ground breaking. Built in moderators that do little. Multi-shot detachable magazine systems that some love, some don't. Cheap nitro-piston Crosman's ($100) that shoot just as accurately as my FWB124's, though violently, and they don't all shoot that well. A move to picatinny rails. Sig came out with their excellent tombstone breech lockup, but killed the whole gun with a plastic trigger system that couldn't come close to AA or HW, and now it's gone; big surprise. The "old" complicated technology of the Diana Giss system in the model 75 and the 6M pistol needs to be looked into again because they were awesome. Norica Omnia ZRS is at least a step in the right direction, and shows that people are still trying. The last 20 years has been standing still though compared to pcp development and the only way to get new people into them, vs. pcp, is to have the same shooting experience, recoilless. The guns need to be light and recoilless, not the behemoth sled-action units out now. That's the only way that I would ever buy another. Of course, this is just my opinion on it, but if they used a lightweight carbon fiber stock with a internal recoilless system, like a Giss, and skip the Lawyer'd up triggers, that would be fun.

I think the pure physics of the piston movement is difficult to overcome economically. Between that and all real world benefits and subsequent popularity of PCPs, I don't think there's enough profit in springers for companies to invest a lot of money to develop a better antiquated gun.

As i like to say you get the cheaper, better product today ....

Cheaper for them to make and better profit for the shareholders..

I realize I am new to air arms, past my Daisy Red Rider days in the 60's. I also do not have a big experience base in them either. I bought an AA TX200 MKIII about a year ago and find it addictive. It is FAC running about 14-15 fte. At 63, and not an athletic soul, it is easy to cock. I do not find the "recoil" difficult. Maybe it is due to my history with pb operations. I shoot about 500 to 600 rounds it a week. It needed new breech seals a couple times. It needed a refresh at about 15K projectiles. It is as accurate as I might expect out to 50 yards. At 50-yards it will drop pigeons decisively with front chest shots or head shots.

No compressor to care for, no bottles to carry. As a single shot it is slow with no quick second shot. Much like the rimfire and shotgun of my youth. I have a Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50mm on it now but had a Center Point scope that worked as well.

So for me ...

I would love to see a "new" gliss system guns and i would buy one straight off ! but i do not think it would be a seller at the price it would have to be .
The sled system of the Diana 54 is the next best option available today but it is heavy .

I used to shoot breakbarrel guns in the 7 lb weight range. I would look at the stats of guns like the D54 and think they are just too heavy to actually carry.

Then I got me a D54, and realized their heaviness isn't near what a breakbarrel guy like me would assume / extrapolate, since the sidelever Diana is short and has a great balance, thanks to the sidelever being at the center of the gun, and not at the front. Listed mass can be misleading that way.

I got my FWB 124d in early 1975 and eventually in the very early 80's put a Beeman blue ribbon 3-9 scope on it, and the scope stayed there until a couple of years ago until I went back to a receiver sight. I also last year got a newer FWB Sport, I like the lines and esier cocking of the 124, and the angular trigger guard of the Sport really does nothing for me asthetically. Now the trigger on the Sport is much better, the rear sight on the Sport is probably the best leaf sight I have seen on any airgun, and most powder burning guns. The safety on the Sport has improved a lot over the 124, instead of a stamped piece that pushes forward to disengage and cannot be reingauged with cocking the gun, the one on the Sport is milled steel and is push pull to engage/disengage, a big improvement in my opinion.