SCBA Tank Questions

And even though they can be perfectly safe to use as most of us have seen.. That's exactly why they are cheap. Supposed to be destroyed by the entity after the 15 years. Silly but true.
Ah this is all starting to make sense. So if I do buy a used tank make sure to check the manufactures date. There on the cheap because they are either expired or close to being expired. At which then I'll be forced to buy a compressor as the shops wont fill it as its beyond the 15yr. There is always a catch! Thanks for the info guys.

How long does it take to fill a 4500 scba tank with a manual pump ? Lol that cant be fun its a pain to have to fill my bicycle tires to 28lbs with a small pump cant imagine 4500psi.

This hobby aint cheap.
 
How long does it take to fill a 4500 scba tank with a manual pump ? Lol that cant be fun its a pain to have to fill my bicycle tires to 28lbs with a small pump cant imagine 4500psi.

Don't even bother. It would take hundreds of pumping sessions.

This hobby can be quite affordable. $50 Amazon hand pump, one of the sub-$300 guns on the market, and a budget optic can have someone up and running for not much more than $400.

I understand there's so much cool stuff on the market, but we used to have a ton of fun modifying $100 Walmart springers and $50 CO2 pistols. Now all anyone sees when they're entering the hobby are $2500 FX guns and everyone with their $800+ air tank setups.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rcs9250
You're right.... this hobby isn't cheap!.... but then, few hobbies are these days?

As for the 2020 manufactured AirVenturi tank offered at PyramydAir at the discounted cost under $400... it IS a good price! So long as you have access to getting it filled. I bought one and returned it after finding that my 5 minute away fire equipment dealer place for filling my SCOTT scba would not fill the AV due to the valve NOT being a firemans' valve or CGA347. I'm sure I could have purchased additional fittings to allow for filling from them.... but when I asked what I would need for them to comply? the fellow shrugged his shoulders showing complete dis-interest in filling this "less than fire equipment quality tank".

My Scott tank is 15yrs old in November, so I'll likely watch for another with years of life remaining as I found this one...... I just can't see myself buying a compressor and then the frustration and cost of additional cooling and filtration only to experience possible failures from going down that road.
 
Ah this is all starting to make sense. So if I do buy a used tank make sure to check the manufactures date. There on the cheap because they are either expired or close to being expired. At which then I'll be forced to buy a compressor as the shops wont fill it as its beyond the 15yr. There is always a catch! Thanks for the info guys.

How long does it take to fill a 4500 scba tank with a manual pump ? Lol that cant be fun its a pain to have to fill my bicycle tires to 28lbs with a small pump cant imagine 4500psi.

This hobby aint cheap.
If it's not had a current hydro they'll likely force a hydro if the tank is still within age. Yes, filling with a hand pump isn't a good idea. Best to get the used pump and a yong heng compressor for about $200 - $300 when you can, and fill it in 20-30 minute intervals with about the same amount of time for cool down to protect the pump. I use one of these to fill my tank.
 
What are the fill options for SCBA (outside of some handshake deal with your local fire station)? Do dive shops fill SCBA tanks?
SOME dive shops can fill to a TRUE 4500psi. Call around to verify. For a full 4500psi fill tanks needs to cool off after initial "fill" & the last couple hundred psi pumped in.
 
I apologize if someone has already said this, but I just removed the knobs off of my 2 SCBA tanks and removed the spring, then reattached the knobs. Now I don't have to mess with pushing the knob in to open the valve. It works much smoother now!
If you tighten the nut on the valve knob all the way down it bypasses the safety lock. Don't even have to remove spring.
 
What you see on the end appears to be a dedicated CGA 347 for a breathing air unit. You need something like this to go to you 8mm foster. Amazon Link You also want to check the condition inside and out, see it you can make out dates of MFG and last hydro if you can. And make sure it's 4500 psi instead of 2216 psi.
As said, a CGA347 fill adapter is needed to fit MOST, not all SCBA tanks. I use cheapies from Ebay (search "CGA347 fill adapter") & they've all worked for me (some, after replacing o-ring on adapter). They have female foster fittings on end of fill whip.
 
FIDI_G
To quote your post “ At which then I'll be forced to buy a compressor as the shops wont fill it as its beyond the 15yr. “
I don’t think MACTEN was suggesting you keep filling an SCBA which has exceeded its service life.
It might be safe to do that, it might not. If you choose to run one past its recommended service life, at the very least check the inside for corrosion, pitting, thread cracks or water. And even if none of those things is present it doesn’t mean it is able to pass a hydro. There’s even risk of catastrophic failure even when a tank does pass hydro. Not sure that’s ever happened. Maybe a lot of airgunners run expired tanks, I don’t know. But what if your tank did fail and a family member or friend or you are severely injured or killed. An investigation could reveal illegal use of an expired tank and you lose everything, if you weren’t killed.
Smartest way is to plan for its expiration and start setting aside money for the next tank so when the time comes it won’t kill the budget in one lump.
 
FIDI_G
To quote your post “ At which then I'll be forced to buy a compressor as the shops wont fill it as its beyond the 15yr. “
I don’t think MACTEN was suggesting you keep filling an SCBA which has exceeded its service life.
It might be safe to do that, it might not. If you choose to run one past its recommended service life, at the very least check the inside for corrosion, pitting, thread cracks or water. And even if none of those things is present it doesn’t mean it is able to pass a hydro. There’s even risk of catastrophic failure even when a tank does pass hydro. Not sure that’s ever happened. Maybe a lot of airgunners run expired tanks, I don’t know. But what if your tank did fail and a family member or friend or you are severely injured or killed. An investigation could reveal illegal use of an expired tank and you lose everything, if you weren’t killed.
Smartest way is to plan for its expiration and start setting aside money for the next tank so when the time comes it won’t kill the budget in one lump.
If I can't find an SCBA with a couple of years on it Im gonna just buy a compressor. I dont think I want to mess with an expired tank.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rcs9250
If I can't find an SCBA with a couple of years on it Im gonna just buy a compressor. I dont think I want to mess with an expired tank.
You can do what you want. I have one tank that isn't "expired" and two that are. Use all of them. You can do a search on the arbitrary reasons for the US saying something is expired when it really isn't. If I were you, I'd just buy a compressor and just plan on replacing it with a new one once in a while as most are disposable.
 
I use an expired tank, a Scott 45 minute I bought from ebay for about $100. I wanted to fill it myself and the cost for my setup is not much, if any, more than a new 4500 psi bottle of equivalent capacity (66 ft3). I do not worry about my tank because there is no visible damage to the carbon fiber and I am quite sure it will fail by leaking of the inner aluminum liner, not catastrophically. I also think the quality of a good SCBA tank (like a Scott) is very likely to be significantly better than a new tank sold for air rifle use. They certainly cost a lot more new. There has been a study of the basis of the 15 year life limit, I think the Navy paid for it. The conclusion was there just is not a good technical basis. I am not arguing it is not safer to use a tank with a current hydro, only that all tanks are not equal and there is some basis to conclude that a high quality tank is still quite safe to use when it is older than 15 years.

I bought one of those cheap Amazon fill sets and it leaked terribly. I ended up with one that cost almost twice what my tank cost. It doesn't leak at all and is a pleasure to use. I guess we all decide where to spend our money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: n3rdv and rcs9250
I use an expired tank, a Scott 45 minute I bought from ebay for about $100. I wanted to fill it myself and the cost for my setup is not much, if any, more than a new 4500 psi bottle of equivalent capacity (66 ft3). I do not worry about my tank because there is no visible damage to the carbon fiber and I am quite sure it will fail by leaking of the inner aluminum liner, not catastrophically. I also think the quality of a good SCBA tank (like a Scott) is very likely to be significantly better than a new tank sold for air rifle use. They certainly cost a lot more new. There has been a study of the basis of the 15 year life limit, I think the Navy paid for it. The conclusion was there just is not a good technical basis. I am not arguing it is not safer to use a tank with a current hydro, only that all tanks are not equal and there is some basis to conclude that a high quality tank is still quite safe to use when it is older than 15 years.

I bought one of those cheap Amazon fill sets and it leaked terribly. I ended up with one that cost almost twice what my tank cost. It doesn't leak at all and is a pleasure to use. I guess we all decide where to spend our money.
So how are you filling your tank ? Whats a fill set? A compressor? Do you have a link. There was a link posted earlier it was about $50 on Amazon?
 
This thread is one of many in the archives on this very same subject. It is also certain there will be more of the same in the future. Below please find a list of truths that apply:

1} Air is free until you squeeze it.
2} High Pressure Air (HPA} is the most expensive element within the PCP hobby, much more than the guns.
3} Using other people's compressors is expensive and inconvenient.
4} Hand pumps are way to tedious to be practical.
5} Portable compressors are impractical, frail and much slower to recharge a gun than a bottle as well as power not usually present at ranges.
6} The only air that is available to recharge a gun from a bottle is the air above the gun's regulator's pressure, not its total volume.
7} Carbon Fiber bottles ARE aluminum bottles just wrapped in CF.
8} To support 8 hrs. at a range takes 12 liters of HPA at 250 Bar.
9} CF bottles are much easier (lighter} to carry than other HPA bottle types.
10} 4500 PSI (300 Bar} is NOT necessary. This pressure causes unnecessary stress on the gun with only a small increase in available shots.
11} Cheap Chinese compressors although affordable, are frail, have a poor resale value and are a very poor investment.
12} Professional industrial compressors are infinitely more reliable. They maintain their value and are often sell for more than their original cost new.
13} A PCP shooter will eventually need and acquire a compressor, several HPA bottles, several whips, spare fittings and adapters, air water seperators as well as valves, gauges, meters and what not. Only then is PCP shooting inexpensive!
 
  • Like
Reactions: rc4fun and rcs9250
This thread is one of many in the archives on this very same subject. It is also certain there will be more of the same in the future. Below please find a list of truths that apply:

1} Air is free until you squeeze it.
2} High Pressure Air (HPA} is the most expensive element within the PCP hobby, much more than the guns.
3} Using other people's compressors is expensive and inconvenient.
4} Hand pumps are way to tedious to be practical.
5} Portable compressors are impractical, frail and much slower to recharge a gun than a bottle as well as power not usually present at ranges.
6} The only air that is available to recharge a gun from a bottle is the air above the gun's regulator's pressure, not its total volume.
7} Carbon Fiber bottles ARE aluminum bottles just wrapped in CF.
8} To support 8 hrs. at a range takes 12 liters of HPA at 250 Bar.
9} CF bottles are much easier (lighter} to carry than other HPA bottle types.
10} 4500 PSI (300 Bar} is NOT necessary. This pressure causes unnecessary stress on the gun with only a small increase in available shots.
11} Cheap Chinese compressors although affordable, are frail, have a poor resale value and are a very poor investment.
12} Professional industrial compressors are infinitely more reliable. They maintain their value and are often sell for more than their original cost new.
13} A PCP shooter will eventually need and acquire a compressor, several HPA bottles, several whips, spare fittings and adapters, air water seperators as well as valves, gauges, meters and what not. Only then is PCP shooting inexpensive!
Excellent. Spot on. Good job
 
This thread is one of many in the archives on this very same subject. It is also certain there will be more of the same in the future. Below please find a list of truths that apply:

1} Air is free until you squeeze it.
2} High Pressure Air (HPA} is the most expensive element within the PCP hobby, much more than the guns.
3} Using other people's compressors is expensive and inconvenient.
4} Hand pumps are way to tedious to be practical.
5} Portable compressors are impractical, frail and much slower to recharge a gun than a bottle as well as power not usually present at ranges.
6} The only air that is available to recharge a gun from a bottle is the air above the gun's regulator's pressure, not its total volume.
7} Carbon Fiber bottles ARE aluminum bottles just wrapped in CF.
8} To support 8 hrs. at a range takes 12 liters of HPA at 250 Bar.
9} CF bottles are much easier (lighter} to carry than other HPA bottle types.
10} 4500 PSI (300 Bar} is NOT necessary. This pressure causes unnecessary stress on the gun with only a small increase in available shots.
11} Cheap Chinese compressors although affordable, are frail, have a poor resale value and are a very poor investment.
12} Professional industrial compressors are infinitely more reliable. They maintain their value and are often sell for more than their original cost new.
13} A PCP shooter will eventually need and acquire a compressor, several HPA bottles, several whips, spare fittings and adapters, air water seperators as well as valves, gauges, meters and what not. Only then is PCP shooting inexpensive!
Steve thanks for the insights. I probably went with the recommendation your least infavor with. It wasnt a recommendation at all for that matter. I bought a used broken HPA compressor. Putting it back together now. Its funny there seems to be a very polarizing argument with cheap compressors. Some love them some hate them. Some have had great sucess some have had nothing but issues. Being so nieve and new to this and not thinking it all the way through buying a used HPC is probably one of my dumber ideas. Im definitely going to keep a close eye on it and keep it fairly isolated until I can thoroughly go through it and gain some confidence.

Question about not filling to 300bar. My gun goes to 300bar but what should I fill it too?275 to 280?
 
  • Like
Reactions: steve-l
Steve thanks for the insights. I probably went with the recommendation your least infavor with. It wasnt a recommendation at all for that matter. I bought a used broken HPA compressor. Putting it back together now. Its funny there seems to be a very polarizing argument with cheap compressors. Some love them some hate them. Some have had great sucess some have had nothing but issues. Being so nieve and new to this and not thinking it all the way through buying a used HPC is probably one of my dumber ideas. Im definitely going to keep a close eye on it and keep it fairly isolated until I can thoroughly go through it and gain some confidence.

Question about not filling to 300bar. My gun goes to 300bar but what should I fill it too?275 to 280?
There is nothing wrong with building your own compressor. In fact I did the same thing, but I used a professional Bauer 4 cylinder pump that I discovered in a junk yard. I bought that for scrap weight 25 years ago. I then had to design, source all the parts and build all my controls. Even at that, I still had about $1500 in it plus my time. I also use two 12 liter SCUBA bottles and one 12 liter CF bottle. I charge all three to 235 Bar... no more. I use the SCUBA bottles for home use because they are too heavy to carry around. The CF bottle I carry around to different ranges. Even at the lower 235 Bar, I can shoot my air guns for 8 hrs. or more. I shoot my PP700SA pistol almost every day at home. I charge the pistol to 200 Bar. I usually shoot about 40 shots per daily session. One 12 liter bottle charge will support that for a month. Who needs more bottle pressure? I recharge my bottles when bottle pressure drops to about 190 Bar. My compressor is rated at 80 liters a minute. A bottle charge takes about 8 minutes from 190 Bar.

These Chinese compressors overheat quickly. They have a very low duty cycle. They are only good to charge a gun, not a bottle.
 
I fill my expired SCBA tank to 4000 or more about once a month using my Yong Heng compressor. I just put a male to male foster into the fill set of the tank to connect it to the hose coming from my extra air filter on the Yong Heng. There is a one way valve on the extra filter so the tank cannot pressurize the compressor and so the tank air doesn't leak out when I vent the compressor.

I wouldn't want anyone with reservations about an expired tank to do anything they are uncomfortable with. I am quite comfortable with my choice as are many air gunners. The tanks firemen use are very well made tanks, likely significantly better than the tanks sold for airgun use. It is very likely that the failure mode of any compressed air tank will be leakage rather than something more violent. The 15 year lifetime is arbitrary. There is a study commissioned by the Navy that said it is overly conservative. So there is good data to suggest we are not being reckless. But if it concerns you, spend more and get yourself a new tank.