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Demolition Ranch Video “More Powerful Than 9mm” Will Have Bad Consequences

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Just saw the Demo Ranch You Tube video “Airguns More Powerful Than a 9mm?” where Matt does impressive penetration tests on a ballistic torso using AEA big bores. Guns, ammo and gear were provided by Utah Airguns, DonnyFL, the Pellet Shop and AEA in exchange for his promotion.

Stupid way to get a lot more regulation quicker than ever ~ Do you really think a politician is going to care about the nuance between calibers after they see a ballistic gel dummy get blown apart no different than an AR15 or deer slug? Do you really think they’ll continue to carry on as most of us do now when they see the potential revenue stream from regulating and licensing?

Don’t you suspect that someone from Everytown for Gun Safety or any other anti-2A group monitors popular gun media? (Of course they do!)

Every American air gunner will be affected with their freedom to shoot unfettered taken away or severely diminished by the gun grabbers’ zeal. And this video gives them the perfect ammunition to do just that. Matt clearly demonstrates with a human like head and torso what kind of damage an airgun can do.

Matt’s You Tube channel gets millions of views, including enemies of airgunners (such as every goon in the Alphabet org).

I’ve spent $5k-plus with Utah, Donny and TPS but never again, I’m done. Can’t abide doing business with people who are both greedy and dumb.

It’s idiotic. Sell a ton of AEAs or other big bores this Fall for a short term profit only to curtail the sport for millions of quiet, legal and discrete airgunners.
 
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I mean, airguns have been a thing since Lewis and Clark's expedition. They were putting meat on the table then and they continue to today.

I feel where you are coming from, but I think we are a ways out from having to worry.

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Inappropriate material removed. Please read the Airgun Nation Rules again, before posting.

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1. Exercise common sense and be considerate towards your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token: rude, lewd, vulgar, obscene, flaming, baiting, trolling, hateful, threatening, insulting, violent, or slanderous content will not be tolerated. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.
3. Illegal use, self-defense, or unsafe operation/handling of an airgun (or any product) is prohibited.
10. Political discussions are not allowed. We are in a very divisive political climate so be aware of your words. They can and will be used against you, and the shooting community as a whole.
 
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MRA_Field_Target said:
You're worried about the wrong things. We have rights far more important than bb guns being trampled right now. Use this energy to fight for whats being taken instead of arguing about maybe babies.
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Agreed but this is an airgun forum, not a firearms forum. We're allowed to be worried about the future of our hobby and we're certainly allowed to fight for our rights to do both. Airgun restrictions and firearm restrictions go hand in hand and concidering most of the world (and some of our own states for that matter) concider airguns to be firearms, it makes sense to make a big deal out of things like this.
 
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Swing360 said:
I mean, airguns have been a thing since Lewis and Clark's expedition. They were putting meat on the table then and they continue to today.

I feel where you are coming from, but I think we are a ways out from having to worry.

Our worries come from when these become cheaper than a firearm to kill someone with. So long as highpoint keeps pumping out $150 handguns we'll be alright.
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Honestly, I know its being compared with other manufacturers and youtubers but its being done in better ways, where technicalities are discussed, ballistics etc, and that I can definitely get behind.

Ever since the release of info on that S45 or whatever it is, all I see is AEA being compared to fire arms by youtubers, facebook posts, etc. Marketing as self defense, its terrible and it is going to cause hell for the people who just enjoy the sport and not so much for the felons who can't legally purchase a firearm.
 
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Good afternoon everyone,

First, I'd like to thank the OP for not sharing that video here on AGN. It would have clearly violated rule # 3.

3. Illegal use, self-defense, or unsafe operation/handling of an airgun (or any product) is prohibited.

That being said we're reopening this topic to allow a mature discussion. Please ensure that your replies are in accordance with our rules:

1. Exercise common sense and be considerate towards your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token: rude, lewd, vulgar, obscene, flaming, baiting, trolling, hateful, threatening, insulting, violent, or slanderous content will not be tolerated. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.

10. Political discussions are not allowed. We are in a very divisive political climate so be aware of your words. They can and will be used against you, and the shooting community as a whole.

Thank you
-Michael
 
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Let me say that I appreciate Michael’s re-opening of the topic. Let’s not forget however that this then puts the responsibility on us to have a reasonable discussion.

From my perspective I can understand the concern of the OP and others about he video. However I also feel that trying to “fly under the radar” is futile in the modern world. We cannot unsee, or undo, that which has already been done and seen.

The fact IS that “Big Bore” or “Big Power” airguns exist and are owned by, probably, hundreds of thousands of people.And yes, they can be used to do stupid things, or put in YouTube videos that showcase their awesome destructive power. So what? It’s certainly not new. We have a Hunting forum with pretty specific and gory detail about the result of the (lawful) use of airguns on small (and not so small) game, pests and predators. I don’t see that as any less likely to bring in outside critics (Animal Rights people for example) than simple videos showing the impact of high power airguns on ballistic gel and torsos.

At the end of the day it is the behavior of the people who own and operate airguns that is likely to have the greatest effect on their general availability and use. If we see a lot of people doing stupid, or wantonly destructive, things with airguns then we will have problems. And while I know that some will say, “its only a small minority who do this so why should we be punished” I think that (a) it depends on how small that number is, and (b) that’s the way of the world and always has been. If enough people do stupid things then most societies will try to rein in that activity.

So, think before you shoot. Think about where you are, where you shot, what you shoot and what you shoot at. Remember the basic safety rules and just generally, don’t be a D**k, or a Doofus.
 
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Frank I don’t think you’re wrong about your concerns, it’s just the other factors going on are a much bigger concern. Our societies are going into chaos and show no signs of slowing down. It’s like trying to patch a tire on your car because the engine threw a rod. I don’t like the over the top crazy advertising of airguns either, but it’s the least of my worries with the crap that’s happening right now.

Beau
 
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frankpetronio said:
Kind of hard to complain about me or others calling attention to these issues after You Tube celebrities with millions of subscribers do it on a mass industrial scale.

I'll butt out now but I think it's naive not to think this is the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot. Sure, they might sell a lot more stuff in the short term but if we go the way of the rest of the world (ie British Laws) we'll be curtailing rather than growing the sport.
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frankpetronio, no complaints at all from me about your post. I understand your point and I certainly wouldn’t put up a video of me shooting a human torso with an airgun (of course, I wouldn’t, and wouldn’t advise anyone to, put any video shooting a torso with any type of gun). I would also say that I am a little surprised that Utah Airguns etc. would have their names associated with this, although they may not have known what the content would look like when they donated the gun, ammo, etc.

What I am saying is that I just don’t think that this is new, or that big a deal, not that I like or recommend it.
 
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moodyblues said:
Frank I don’t think you’re wrong about your concerns, it’s just the other factors going on are a much bigger concern. Our societies are going into chaos and show no signs of slowing down. It’s like trying to patch a tire on your car because the engine threw a rod. I don’t like the over the top crazy advertising of airguns either, but it’s the least of my worries with the crap that’s happening right now.

Beau
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Precisely!
 
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Chrisis, your post articulates well a very thoughtful and commons sense opinion. Unfortunately, many of those who make the rules do not demonstrate either of those traits. And, responsible behavior on our part has no influence on their thinking. I have expressed my disappointment in numerous posts, regarding the growing focus and publicity surrounding ever more powerful air rifles. Our uniquely American obsession with speed and power will ultimately and dramatically change the air gun landscape, and the manner in which we enjoy them. At my age, I'm just hopeful I can ride out the wave of freedom and ease of use we now enjoy. Granted, a flat tire is much less serious than thrown rod, but, they both stop the car, and both probably deserve some attention.
Ed
 
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elh0102 said:
Granted, a flat tire is much less serious than thrown rod, but, they both stop the car, and both probably deserve some attention.
Ed
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Yes but I’m not spending time, money and effort on a tire if I don’t think I can get an engine for the car. Im just a steel shop hand so Im nothing special, but I think it’s gonna be damn hard to find this engine.

Beau
 
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I wouldn't worry about it. That is my simple answer.

A few years ago the singshot channel JoergeSprave did a video comparing a slingshot to a firearm. Such comparisons are done because frankly they generate numbers, and this thread is proof of that fact. However, I think the fear driven by many on the hobby side of the airgun community is misplaced. If you talk to wardens, the Alphabet org, regulators and so on, I can tell you frankly that they do not care about airguns. Yes, sometimes you can get a slingshot or an airgun or any other object imaginable to make more FPE than a handgun. And, so?

To help grow the hobby, it is best to not fear hypotheticals and deal positively with the realities we are presently faced with. Yes, airguns can be anywhere from low powered to high powered. Yes, they need to be safely handled. However, fear of unknown and hypothetical situations that may never come into existence in the first place is not a positive for the community. In fact, I think fear based reactions to videos like the one mentioned above do more damage to the hobby than any actual video.

I do want to state that many in the industry do talk to the Alphabet org, regulators, wardens and others (I myself have), and I can assure you that they are well aware of the capability of airguns and completely have no ambition to carry out any of the restrictive regulations feared in the above comments. Why not? Because they are on the bottom of a long list, most likely right next to the slingshots. Can one predict that this will always be the case? No, of course not. History moves in many directions. But crying "stop" into the winds of Time won't help anything. If you want to grow the sport, the best advocacy for the hobby is teaching your kids and grandchildren how to safely enjoy the sport, no matter the FPE of the airgun. Instead of worrying about the FPE or some comparison being made, worry about whether or not your son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter had some wholesome fun with an airgun this week. Shepherding someone into a hobby advances it. Fear of the future does not.







Just my two cents.
 
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moodyblues said:
Frank I don’t think you’re wrong about your concerns, it’s just the other factors going on are a much bigger concern. Our societies are going into chaos and show no signs of slowing down. It’s like trying to patch a tire on your car because the engine threw a rod. I don’t like the over the top crazy advertising of airguns either, but it’s the least of my worries with the crap that’s happening right now.

Beau
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It's called, multitasking, and Frank is right.
 
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AtlasAirguns said:
I wouldn't worry about it. That is my simple answer.

A few years ago the singshot channel JoergeSprave did a video comparing a slingshot to a firearm. Such comparisons are done because frankly they generate numbers, and this thread is proof of that fact. However, I think the fear driven by many on the hobby side of the airgun community is misplaced. If you talk to wardens, the ***, regulators and so on, I can tell you frankly that they do not care about airguns. Yes, sometimes you can get a slingshot or an airgun or any other object imaginable to make more FPE than a handgun. And, so?

To help grow the hobby, it is best to not fear hypotheticals and deal positively with the realities we are presently faced with. Yes, airguns can be anywhere from low powered to high powered. Yes, they need to be safely handled. However, fear of unknown and hypothetical situations that may never come into existence in the first place is not a positive for the community. In fact, I think fear based reactions to videos like the one mentioned above do more damage to the hobby than any actual video.

I do want to state that many in the industry do talk to the ***, regulators, wardens and others (I myself have), and I can assure you that they are well aware of the capability of airguns and completely have no ambition to carry out any of the restrictive regulations feared in the above comments. Why not? Because they are on the bottom of a long list, most likely right next to the slingshots. Can one predict that this will always be the case? No, of course not. History moves in many directions. But crying "stop" into the winds of Time won't help anything. If you want to grow the sport, the best advocacy for the hobby is teaching your kids and grandchildren how to safely enjoy the sport, no matter the FPE of the airgun. Instead of worrying about the FPE or some comparison being made, worry about whether or not your son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter had some wholesome fun with an airgun this week. Shepherding someone into a hobby advances it. Fear of the future does not.







Just my two cents.
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Can't really compare a slingshot to something capable of taking down a grizzly bear...

Regulations are almost certainly coming, the questions are "when?" and "how can we slow them down?"

Politicians are not typically reasonable and/or logical. They are reactionary to appease their constituents. One bad apple and enough news coverage will be all that it takes.
 
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I think there are two related, but different topics being interchanged here, maybe too freely. There is no doubt that the conscientious use and training of air rifles is critical to the long term and safe enjoyment of the sport. But, the common sense of folks at the enforcement level is not material to the the laws and regulations passed by others. As George Carlin said, "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." I was in a federal regulatory enforcement position for 10 years, I saw it daily. Rules passed that were largely unenforceable, and even when enforced, were of no real value. That said, the point is well taken that, in the global scheme of things, whatever happens with our little air rifle sport is not even a tiny blip on the screen. That is the truth, and it's not lost on me. But, I'm retired, so I have time to gripe about all kinds of stuff!
Ed
 
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