Official 2025 Pyramyd AIR Cup thread!
- Thread starter Airgun Nation
- Start date
Again at this level everyone is good and the slightest edge means everything. 1.3% might as well be 1300%
Only thing that can be done now is change how the rule is written. To avoid this in the future subjective statements such as “mass produced “ need to be removed or clarified with something like commercially available etc etc.
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I think it’s to limit the BC.
Nikolai came up with a higher BC projectile that’s legal for PAC. Good for him.
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Another viewpoint on all this ...
I had the thought that, what if that claimed 0.092 BC is akin to the typical retailer claims like "1400fps per second!" You know, salesman tactics in case he gets to a point in the future where they're actually available to buy.
But then my next thought was that he obviously considers them an advantage or he wouldnt have personally used them.
And then my next thought was wondering why his margins for winning were so slim. With a projectile with a BC 30% better than anything else being shot in the same competition, you would expect a blow-out. Unless he's got flyers and curve balls that accompany that 0.092 BC.
Ie it doesn't quite all add up. With that much of a BC jump over the rest of the field, he should have won by larger margins. And I say that coming from the perspective of having nearly unlimited opportunities for long range airgun shooting, and of BCs of airgun projectiles being my little pet project. Shooting two pellets to 100 yards, in the same wind conditions, with a 30% difference of BC between them is simply mind blowing.
I had the thought that, what if that claimed 0.092 BC is akin to the typical retailer claims like "1400fps per second!" You know, salesman tactics in case he gets to a point in the future where they're actually available to buy.
But then my next thought was that he obviously considers them an advantage or he wouldnt have personally used them.
And then my next thought was wondering why his margins for winning were so slim. With a projectile with a BC 30% better than anything else being shot in the same competition, you would expect a blow-out. Unless he's got flyers and curve balls that accompany that 0.092 BC.
Ie it doesn't quite all add up. With that much of a BC jump over the rest of the field, he should have won by larger margins. And I say that coming from the perspective of having nearly unlimited opportunities for long range airgun shooting, and of BCs of airgun projectiles being my little pet project. Shooting two pellets to 100 yards, in the same wind conditions, with a 30% difference of BC between them is simply mind blowing.
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@Franklink , good thoughts but when we are all shooting sub .1BC projectiles no matter what advantage the projectile has every shooter is still constrained and bound by constantly changing wind conditions. The 100 bench range at Cardinal Shooting Center is wide open with a low-ish U shaped dirt berm surrounding us on three sides. Conditions can change so quickly, in the blink of an eye, that the projectile must obey the wind once released from the pipe. Give 100 shooters equal equipment and he who reads the wind the best ... wins.
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wait...with Daystate rifles? That's awesome. I want a tack driving Daystate one day. So far I have struck out everytime I bought one. User error maybe.
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Yes, and what I’ve learned from all this is the ACTUAL rule is “diabolo shaped pellet” is the only rule. Competitions should just say that and delete the weasel word “rules”, because frankly, there are none. IMHO.
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Your last sentence is what all this discussion has been about. And 100% equal equipment is of course not possible, but staying within the spirit of the rules on projectile choice has kept things fairly even...til now.
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RMAC allowed it so I guess if they say good, it's good for all. RMAC is the governing body I suppose.
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Another thought is to have maybe 3 different classes 1-factory= under 100ftlbs Diablo pellets only, stock factory components only. 2- open= any ftlbs any after market components any Diablo pellets custom or mass produced. 3- Slug= any ftlbs any slug, allow any custom gun and components.
Problem I see with this structure is the host of these events would require many extra personnel with the knowledge to understand, control and enforce these rules. This also would require much morel time to run these different classifications!
The big events like the PA cup police this in their sanctioned WFTF, hunter class, spring and open field target competitions. I believe originally pyramid air was centered around field target not BR. But the other’s were centered around BR. First?.
Problem I see with this structure is the host of these events would require many extra personnel with the knowledge to understand, control and enforce these rules. This also would require much morel time to run these different classifications!
The big events like the PA cup police this in their sanctioned WFTF, hunter class, spring and open field target competitions. I believe originally pyramid air was centered around field target not BR. But the other’s were centered around BR. First?.
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MOD EDIT: CONTENT REMOVED. Exercise common sense and be considerate towards your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token: rude, lewd, vulgar, obscene, flaming, baiting, trolling, hateful, threatening, insulting, violent, or slanderous content will not be tolerated. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.
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A few thoughts come to mind in no particular order
-Create 2 separate groups. 1 group that is totally unlimited and 1 group that is totally stock everything. They can all shoot at the same time like NRL but get scored into different groups.
-Rewrite the rules to include more details about every piece of equipment and component that is allowed.
-Create a governing body to make the rules consistent for these large competitions.
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I agree with you Mike.
Why are you being so harsh? If you can’t be civil, don’t post anything mean spirited.
This is an excellent educational thread in its entirety with a lot of healthy discussion and some meaningful different points of view. For those who want to continue to learn ( for sure I am one), there is a lot of great input and feedback from the shooters who attended and other seasoned BR veterans.
There is an old saying in IT Consulting. “A really good Consultant, knows how and when to LISTEN!”
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Gentlemen,
Please "Exercise common sense and be considerate towards your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token: rude, lewd, vulgar, obscene, flaming, baiting, trolling, hateful, threatening, insulting, violent, or slanderous content will not be tolerated. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully."
Thank you
-Michael
Please "Exercise common sense and be considerate towards your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token: rude, lewd, vulgar, obscene, flaming, baiting, trolling, hateful, threatening, insulting, violent, or slanderous content will not be tolerated. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully."
Thank you
-Michael
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