Field Target is an arms race.
- Thread starter Franklink
- Start date
Let's revive this topic with a twist. We will objectively be trying to prove if the $cost$ of your Field Target Airgun and your choice of Scope have any correlation to the overall performance - and thus be a true arms race based on investment rather than ego.
There will be three/four classes for testing this:
<12 FPE - any scope any magnification
PCP
Springer
<20 FPE - any scope but limited to 16X magnification
PCP
Springer
All interested persons will take their current or favorite "or all of them" Field Target rigs and shoot a white 5"x7" graph style index card, marked dead center with a 1/8" circle. You will shoot it (10) ten times at 55 yards.
Ideally, for a proper comparison we will need the following information:
the name / type of airgun (price point with upgrades if any)
the type of scope (price point)
any special tuning that may have been done (cost)
total investment =
total net return on said investment = will require some math, as in, a way to determine cost versus the smallest 10 shot group created.
You are welcome and encouraged to repeat this process for as many airgun / scope combinations as you have, but the weather conditions need to be the same. Shooting from a bench is also encouraged as the overall stability in grouping will have some of the human factor removed, some not all.
Please post your pictures of your 10 round (not cherry picked)
Just to clarify - we are more interested in your group size than we are you hitting the bullseye.
I will be doing this test for approximately 10 or more high end HFT rigs / scope combinations. A Crosman HFT Challenger and a Thomas will be in my samplings.
your welcome to add your pellet choice and speed as well but the group (measured) is the most important thing.
There will be three/four classes for testing this:
<12 FPE - any scope any magnification
PCP
Springer
<20 FPE - any scope but limited to 16X magnification
PCP
Springer
All interested persons will take their current or favorite "or all of them" Field Target rigs and shoot a white 5"x7" graph style index card, marked dead center with a 1/8" circle. You will shoot it (10) ten times at 55 yards.
Ideally, for a proper comparison we will need the following information:
the name / type of airgun (price point with upgrades if any)
the type of scope (price point)
any special tuning that may have been done (cost)
total investment =
total net return on said investment = will require some math, as in, a way to determine cost versus the smallest 10 shot group created.
You are welcome and encouraged to repeat this process for as many airgun / scope combinations as you have, but the weather conditions need to be the same. Shooting from a bench is also encouraged as the overall stability in grouping will have some of the human factor removed, some not all.
Please post your pictures of your 10 round (not cherry picked)
Just to clarify - we are more interested in your group size than we are you hitting the bullseye.
I will be doing this test for approximately 10 or more high end HFT rigs / scope combinations. A Crosman HFT Challenger and a Thomas will be in my samplings.
your welcome to add your pellet choice and speed as well but the group (measured) is the most important thing.
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I’m in
I am going to start with spring guns.
1 Browning leverage w 4-12x utg. $300
2 Diana 48 with utg 4-16 $600
3 tx200 Aztec Emerald 5.5-25. $1200
I’ll make this my weekend project weather permitting.
I am going to start with spring guns.
1 Browning leverage w 4-12x utg. $300
2 Diana 48 with utg 4-16 $600
3 tx200 Aztec Emerald 5.5-25. $1200
I’ll make this my weekend project weather permitting.
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Spring gun from 300-1200 dollars will be a good test. What I have for a PCP is no contest . HFT 500 vs Browning Underlever. Not even close.
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Love the idea of seeing groups with different guns but what is the main thought behind this? That cheap guns aren't as accurate as expensive ones?
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Truth be told.... it is a test between you and the guns ability to group at 55 yards... then to compare it against all the other rigs that will be posting the same results.
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The reason is to quantify how dollars spent on equipment related to performance in a measurable way. The statement the "cheap guns aren't as accurate as expensive guns" is subjective without data.
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I think you hit the nail on the head though earlier. People like to buy shiny things because they can. Do you need sub moa accuracy to shoot FT? No, but it doesn't hurt either. I may put my targets in, I have a range trip on Wednesday to test two ends of the spectrum in this, a Marauder and a RedWolf.
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I dont know that 55 only groupings are (entirely) predictive here. While you're considering the maximum distance, you're not really considering KZ size...at least in the way that every 55 yard shot is at least 1.5".
Much of the rifle's TRUE grouping accuracy is going to be how many times you knock down sub-1" targets at or near their maximum extremes.
Looking DIFTA's upcoming match: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/difta-md-ft-match-saturday-2-august-2025.1335856/
That's 5 targets, 10 shots out of 60 at 1/2 inch or less. I dont care what the close distance troyer rating is...that 3/8" gives no wiggle room for a flyer.
I'm not saying EVERY rifle is gonna group 1.5 or so at 50y, I will say getting X out of 10 inside 1/2" outside-to-outside groups is equally as relevant. What that "X" is to be considered FT capable is obviously up for debate.
Much of the rifle's TRUE grouping accuracy is going to be how many times you knock down sub-1" targets at or near their maximum extremes.
Looking DIFTA's upcoming match: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/difta-md-ft-match-saturday-2-august-2025.1335856/
That's 5 targets, 10 shots out of 60 at 1/2 inch or less. I dont care what the close distance troyer rating is...that 3/8" gives no wiggle room for a flyer.
I'm not saying EVERY rifle is gonna group 1.5 or so at 50y, I will say getting X out of 10 inside 1/2" outside-to-outside groups is equally as relevant. What that "X" is to be considered FT capable is obviously up for debate.
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The groupings overall diameter at 55 yards IS what matters when comparing in this particular way to other platforms
A particular KZ size is not necessary to see how tight or how loose any particular gun can group at a specific distance, which in this case is the Field Target max range of 55 yards.
Many guns groupings begin to open up after 30 plus yards...
When the 55 yard targets are brought in and measured, if the group fits within a (X) diameter, then you can assume it is capable of putting (X#) of rounds in a certain size KZ at a certain distance, simple correlation.
The reason for 10 shots is to get a bigger aka better sampling, which may also demonstrate that some guns in a certain price range may produce more flyers than others in a more expensive price range.
shooting from a bench and also using clicks rather than just holdovers will take more human error out of the equation so we can have a better baseline... obviously we can't control all the factors but this is pretty straight forward.
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Had an interesting discussion about group size and stability.
In order to qualify the rifle for FT use you need to know the group size at 55 yards, better if you can eliminate any environmental/shooter factors (benched, indoors).
Just because all the shots may make it into a 1 1/2" circle does not mean that target will fall for all those shots with environmental factors in the mix. This is compounded if the group was shot benched, not only will the environmental factors open up the group, so will the shooter...
To some degree it does not matter how big or small the KZ is in order to know if your rifle will be competitive or not. I can tell you before the rifle even sees a FT course if it is capable.
Typically you need a 3/4" max group size gun at 55 yards (benched, with no environmental effects) to be competitive. 5/8" and under is optimal and will win championships (shooter needs to do their part of course). Groups are however many shots the match in question will be, there are no such things as fliers when you are shooting for score. The smaller the group the more wiggle you have for wind holds (and mis-ranging).
But 3/4" and 5/8" groups are not always the end all be all of being competitive...
A certain shooter had around a 1" no environmental effects group at 55 yards, but due to his shooting position (extremely stable/prone) and ability to range with the reticle (bracket against parallax focus) he was not only competitive but a National and Grand Prix Champion.
The shooter needs about 1/4" of that 1/2" OR 5/8" group to wiggle if they are good.
In order to qualify the rifle for FT use you need to know the group size at 55 yards, better if you can eliminate any environmental/shooter factors (benched, indoors).
Just because all the shots may make it into a 1 1/2" circle does not mean that target will fall for all those shots with environmental factors in the mix. This is compounded if the group was shot benched, not only will the environmental factors open up the group, so will the shooter...
To some degree it does not matter how big or small the KZ is in order to know if your rifle will be competitive or not. I can tell you before the rifle even sees a FT course if it is capable.
Typically you need a 3/4" max group size gun at 55 yards (benched, with no environmental effects) to be competitive. 5/8" and under is optimal and will win championships (shooter needs to do their part of course). Groups are however many shots the match in question will be, there are no such things as fliers when you are shooting for score. The smaller the group the more wiggle you have for wind holds (and mis-ranging).
But 3/4" and 5/8" groups are not always the end all be all of being competitive...
A certain shooter had around a 1" no environmental effects group at 55 yards, but due to his shooting position (extremely stable/prone) and ability to range with the reticle (bracket against parallax focus) he was not only competitive but a National and Grand Prix Champion.
The shooter needs about 1/4" of that 1/2" OR 5/8" group to wiggle if they are good.
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The number of shots at <2 moa (10/60) vs the potentially 4-6/60 at near 3-3.5 moa is probably worth testing is all I'm saying.
A sub 3.5 moa overall gun is ok at 55, and will still not score as well in average with tighter kz sizes.
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All this talk of the necessary accuracy.....
We had a shoot off at the match I attended this weekend, started at 50 yards, 1/2" KZ. Then had to move it back to 54-55 yards, also 1/2." That makes it a 122+ Troyer target, without any wind factors applied.
We had a shoot off at the match I attended this weekend, started at 50 yards, 1/2" KZ. Then had to move it back to 54-55 yards, also 1/2." That makes it a 122+ Troyer target, without any wind factors applied.
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My rule is you must hit a quarter every time at 25 yards for a gun to be suitable for field target.
After 25 yards the scope begins to matters and by 55 yards the scope matters even more.
And actually that’s the arms race.
Take a 2000 dollar gun and shoot with a 2000 dollar scope. Then try it with a 200 dollar scope.
After 25 yards the scope begins to matters and by 55 yards the scope matters even more.
And actually that’s the arms race.
Take a 2000 dollar gun and shoot with a 2000 dollar scope. Then try it with a 200 dollar scope.
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I guess a good question for the thread is where exactly the arms race is in regards to score.
Is it in the 50+ trying to get the win?
Is it in the mid pack looking to get to the 50?
Or is it in the lower level trying to be relevant?
Fwiw my wife is a 38-40 shooter...with a $200 scope that works pretty darn nice. Maybe a nicer one will help a little, but I doubt a sightron moves her to 48.
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The difference between an etched glass reticle and a big hunk of wire is stunning.
The wire crosshairs cover the kill zone at 50 yards.
The wire crosshairs cover the kill zone at 50 yards.
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Not so fast.., as many guns can group at 25 yards but will begin to open up there after. To me, Ultimate podium potential is in a 1/2” or less group at 55 yards but of course the shooter has to be capable of this on the course, not just the bench. As for glass, 16x is the great equalizer and even a $4000. Scope can’t do anything special when ranging at 16x. I know this because I’ve invested enough money and time into scopes to test it first hand.
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