Petition to Allow Laser Range Finders in Field Target Competitions

[JP806TX]

There's no need to carry a rangefinder into the field.
There are some scopes with built-in range finders and ballistic programs.

Amazon.com : ATN X-Sight II HD 5-20 Smart Day/Night Rifle Scope w/1080p Video, Ballistic Calculator, Rangefinder, WiFi, E-Compass, GPS, Barometer, IOS & Android Apps : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : ATN X-Sight II HD 5-20 Smart Day/Night Rifle Scope w/1080p Video, Ballistic Calculator, Rangefinder, WiFi, E-Compass, GPS, Barometer, IOS & Android Apps : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

If they allow something like this...it would definitely change WFTF.

Just as a side bar, does anyone use these scopes as a training aid? Turn off the ballistic program. Range, shoot, record, review. or shoot in the wind, Record your miss, review.

If these type of scopes are allowed, the ability to record, will give you a huge advantage in compensating for wind for the next shot. Especially when the face plate is all shot up.

 

[Bramezy]

View attachment 571707
wondering what this KZ does

Very cool and unique

 

[Bramezy]

Here is a calculated assessment for what happens when you don't range correctly at 12 fpe. It becomes significant beyond 3yds. If you are shooting at 20fpe it's even less.

Range error percentage at 55y

1 yard=2 percent smaller

2yards=7 percent smaller

3yards=17 percent smaller

4yards=33 percent smaller

5yards=64 percent smaller

6yards=100 percent smaller

How often is someone with 30-80x misranging that much? I haven't really heard of it. But then again I dont follow WFTF closely.

 

[thomasair]

How often is someone with 30-80x misranging that much? I haven't really heard of it. But then again I dont follow WFTF closely.

hardly at all...which is what I said before the last post.

 

[Bramezy]

hardly at all...which is what I said before the last post.

I see..said the blind man

 

[Franklink]

Most wftf shooters don't miss targets due to poor ranging....but some think they do. I have thought that on several occasions but eventually figured out that was not really the problem at all.

I know this started as a WFTF topic, but as an aside....

Not many 16x, 19.5fpe Hunter class misses are due to mis-ranging either, yet that is an oft-blamed culprit. Brain fart on the holdover value, poor wind assessment, yanked triggers and/or general instability are all much more frequent miss causes than most seem to realize.

 

[JW.]

Assuming this is a petition for the AAFTA WFTF format to change, one reason this will not happen is that AAFTA WFTF rules are based on the European WFTF rules so there is a class/division for those who want to compete on an international level. Unless the European WFTF adds rangefinders AAFTA will not adopt or create a non-compliant WFTF variant (Open and Hunter are the current 'variants'). I'll bet that the Europeans start shooting 20 ft-lbs before they allow rangefinders...

Open or Hunter would be the proper place to introduce range finders, Hunter really, with Open we get to use telescopes so ranging isn't really an issue.

For the most part traditional field target is about finding the distance to the target with your scope.

For me I found that when I shot the Worlds I had fewer things to do between sitting down and shooting than when I shoot Open (more so when I shoot Open and use my Garmin chrony on the gun). I would guess that the simplicity I experienced is also part of the ethos of the WFTF rules.

 

[PowderBurnt]

I'd rather see a bump in power than range finders.

Edit. I don't shoot WTFT, so it doesn't matter much to me. The super low power turns me off, honestly.

 

[JW.]

I'd rather see a bump in power than range finders.

Edit. I don't shoot WTFT, so it doesn't matter much to me. The super low power turns me off, honestly.

You can shoot Open without a harness...

AAFTA WFTF is not changing unless it changes internationally.

In the end, if we continue to FT into our later years we will all (mostly) become Hunter shooters. I'm not a big fan of not using available magnification (if desired) and competition formats with scope magnification limits are simply dumb in my book. I think Hunter should have the same scope 'restrictions' as Open/WFTF or Open becomes a truly Open format and you can use bucket/sticks/harness as desired.

I know a few older Hunter shooters who have been left in limbo and have to shoot 'Freestyle' (a non-AAFTA format) due to 16x not being sufficient for playing the game. As a person running a GP match that typically has attendance issues due to a number of factors (need a minimum of 15 shooters to have it count as a GP), losing a couple shooters to 'Freestyle' makes it tough to hit the numbers needed.

We had a long discussion about this in Nevada.

As weird as this sounds my AAFTA division formats would be as follows:
WFTF (international rules matching AFTA class/division).
Hunter @ 12 ft-lbs, no scope restrictions, use bucket sticks (no rangefinders).
Open as is but with harness/bucket/sticks (no rangefinders).

I believe there would still be parity among the scores (Open may be a touch higher, but under the current scoring format parity is not an issue like it was before), the new Open format would allow Freestyle competitors to play under the AAFTA umbrella and fill out the Open attendance numbers (which is lacking if you look at what it was five, ten years ago).

 

[cavedweller]

Here is a calculated assessment for what happens when you don't range correctly at 12 fpe. It becomes significant beyond 3yds. If you are shooting at 20fpe it's even less.

Range error percentage at 55y

1 yard=2 percent smaller

2yards=7 percent smaller

3yards=17 percent smaller

4yards=33 percent smaller

5yards=64 percent smaller

6yards=100 percent smaller

wow.. saving this one.

I'd rather see a bump in power than range finders.

Edit. I don't shoot WTFT, so it doesn't matter much to me. The super low power turns me off, honestly.

I'd rather see standardized lighter colored faceplates or faceplate ranging features that make acquisition and focal point assessment easier. After all, it's about marksmanship and being able to interpret the wind more than it is about high dollar optics.

 

[PowderBurnt]

You can shoot Open without a harness...

AAFTA WFTF is not changing unless it changes internationally.

In the end, if we continue to FT into our later years we will all (mostly) become Hunter shooters. I'm not a big fan of not using available magnification (if desired) and competition formats with scope magnification limits are simply dumb in my book. I think Hunter should have the same scope 'restrictions' as Open/WFTF or Open becomes a truly Open format and you can use bucket/sticks/harness as desired.

I know a few older Hunter shooters who have been left in limbo and have to shoot 'Freestyle' (a non-AAFTA format) due to 16x not being sufficient for playing the game. As a person running a GP match that typically has attendance issues due to a number of factors (need a minimum of 15 shooters to have it count as a GP), losing a couple shooters to 'Freestyle' makes it tough to hit the numbers needed.

We had a long discussion about this in Nevada.

As weird as this sounds my AAFTA division formats would be as follows:
WFTF (international rules matching AFTA class/division).
Hunter @ 12 ft-lbs, no scope restrictions, use bucket sticks (no rangefinders).
Open as is but with harness/bucket/sticks (no rangefinders).

I believe there would still be parity among the scores (Open may be a touch higher, but under the current scoring format parity is not an issue like it was before), the new Open format would allow Freestyle competitors to play under the AAFTA umbrella and fill out the Open attendance numbers (which is lacking if you look at what it was five, ten years ago).

I don't like the idea of lowering the power of the gun for hunter. My gun is primarily set up for pesting. Having to either change the tune or buy a competition only gun would suck since I'm nowhere near hitting the podium in the foreseeable future. It's just for fun.

 

[JW.]

I don't like the idea of lowering the power of the gun for hunter. My gun is primarily set up for pesting. Having to either change the tune or buy a competition only gun would suck since I'm nowhere near hitting the podium in the foreseeable future. It's just for fun.

Thats the field target conundrum right there. Field target is primarily run on dedicated equipment that borders on the esoteric.

XFT and 100y BR are thriving because the equipment is what everyone uses for plinking/hunting/etc.

We have lost more attendees to the new AG sports than old eyes, knees or backs.

If the game they play under NRL Hunter (the full size PB's, not the 22lr or AG NRL Hunter) was adapted to AG's I think it would be a big hit. Its a bit more involved than what we do but just as challenging and would 100% have a practical application (hunting). The power level equalization factor would need to be inverted, but other than that it would be easy to adopt.

 

[JW.]

I'd rather see standardized lighter colored faceplates or faceplate ranging features that make acquisition and focal point assessment easier. After all, it's about marksmanship and being able to interpret the wind more than it is about high dollar optics.

We are doing just this next year in Nevada, all white faceplates, will save time painting and freshening up targets between matches. We had some unintended very light/dark target situations.

 

[Perry Perry]

When I did Field Target, ranging was the challenge, not shooting a perfect score makes me want to improve. Even if range finders were allowed, you still have to know how to pull the trigger and all the details to go with it. Pellets don't always go where you want them.

 

[Motorhead]

Just because someone finds an existing rule difficult ... IS NO reason to try and change it to suit ones inability to adapt and figure it out

 

[ctshooter]

Just because someone finds an existing rule difficult ... IS NO reason to try and change it to suit ones inability to adapt and figure it out

Entitled generation looking for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

Learn to range and quit being a total wuss. Let's changes the FT rules so I don't have to work so hard. I can't believe this thread was actually even posted.

 

[c_m_shooter]

"Posting ranges skunks those who want the additional traditional challenge."

Just put the ranges on the score card for that class, and have those folks all shoot together.....

We have had a match director do that twice. He put the ranges on the back of the scorecards at a club match as an experiment. Didn't cause any change in anyones scores from their average.

 

[6gun]

There used to be analog range estimating scopes too. I own one and didn't remember till this morning. Keep in mind that rules are there to benefit those who can play in them or find the gray areas.

 

[RoosterCogburn]

There used to be analog range estimating scopes too. I own one and didn't remember till this morning. Keep in mind that rules are there to benefit those who can play in them or find the gray areas.

any Miliradian FFP scope or SFP MRAD set to its 1:1 magnification is an analog range finder.

Height of target in inches ÷ 36 x 1000 ÷ Mil reading= range in Yards

with MOA reticle it's

target size in inches x 95.5 ÷ MOA reading= range in yards

 

[6gun]

any Miliradian FFP scope or SFP MRAD set to its 1:1 magnification is an analog range finder.

Height of target in inches ÷ 36 x 1000 ÷ Mil reading= range in Yards

with MOA reticle it's

target size in inches x 95.5 ÷ MOA reading= range in yards

Ya but im not here to math, I just build my guns to shoot flat(why I can't shoot field target) and and they're squirrel accurate off just the approx parralax reading correlated to scope stickers.

I just have the "I don't like rules" personality.