In your experience what causes more damage in tissue, JSB Hades or slugs?

[Emu]

I have confirmed and reconfirmed the effectiveness of JSB Hades, but I have no experience with slugs.

I know slugs at long range keep more energy and are more accurate, bit I do not know how much damage they cause in tissue for hunting purposes.

P,ease share experience.

 

[air-hunter_canyon]

good day,

I had made several videos about different pellets vs slugs but I’ll summarize it here for you. The hades pellets do better than slugs. Due to the soft lead and the structure it creates an amazing wound channel. The only concern is if you’re hunting to consume then I would suggest using a HP. The particle degradation and shrapnel from the lead will spread through the subject. This will make it hard to remove all the lead from any meat. Anything less than 80 yards depending on caliber and fps I would use hades for sure. Anything north of that id use slugs

 

[bigHUN]

I ran out with Hades couple months ago, so for my property damage protection I just switched from domed HN 15gn to Piranha's, and the difference on impact is ... noticeable. Still need to lower the speed from 880 ish for better results, as some more inclined suggested.
Before my next purchase I wanna minimize my existing stock in pellets, working on it for over a year now.
I am not saying the Piranha's are great, but working well with squirrels for now.

 

[Florida_Man]

Like all science, there are a lot of factors to work out. The short answer is to have a projectile that will deliver all of its energy into the subject. If you have an equal weight projectile, and one goes through and the other stays in the body, traveling the same speed at impact, the one that stayed in delivers more energy into the body and should be more devastating. And I say this because we are generally speaking below the speed of sound, would path in PB rifle is its own animal.
I have found hollow point slugs that do not open, and exit, they are not delivering their potential.

My background with wound path is in forensics and I read about everything Force Science puts out. I am currently gaining a certification from them. Unfortunately, most of my real life investigations are on humans.

From my limited testing the FX Hybrid on small game is one of the highest transfers of energy. Just watch a slow motion of the energy dump, and you will be impressed.

 

[Motorhead]

"Who's" slug and Speed shot ... as well caliber has a HUGE effect on if a hollow pointed slug opens up in flesh ?

If a slug does not show any opening up it is no better than a dome pellet being a literal Ice pick passing threw said animal generally. And due to the more pointed shape has less IMPACT reaction on the animal generally over a Domed pellet.

Most of the rest are conversations had over & over & over again

 

[TC724]

Energy Transfer is really easy way of summing all of it up IMO. Doesn't really matter (to a point) what you are using, but whatever transfers the most. I don't think either is better, as it depends on so many factors. Whatever seems to "Dead them quicker" use that.

 

[EdinGa]

I only own Hades in .25 and I haven't hunted or pested with them. I do used JSB Knockout 10.03s in .177 almost exclusively at 35 yards and they are devastating at 1000 fps muzzle velocity. I have yet to have a pass-thru on squirrels and all were drt.

 

[Mycapt65]

Energy doesn't kill. Tissue damage does. Hydrostatic shock is the only close example of energy dump killing an animal. In the end it's still only tissue damage caused by a shock wave. Unfortunately hydrostatic shock is only possible at velocities that are usually only attainable by centerfire rifles.

A projectile that destroys vital organs will kill. Whether it passes through the entire animal or not is irrelevant. Only adequate penetration is necessary anything more is not detrimental. Energy doesn't kill. Tissue damage does and it has to be the right tissue too.

 

[Mycapt65]

Check this out.
It's lengthy but excellent. https://www.everydaymarksman.co/marksmanship/terminal-ballistics/

 

[Franklink]

Not an exact answer to your question, but close since the. 20/15.89 weighs about what the .22 Hades do.

I shot a bunch of prairie dogs this summer. I'd guess the average weight of the species in my area is around 1.25lbs, so about the size of a large Fox squirrel (back East) or a rock/ground squirrel here in the West, but more plump than either.

The two projectiles I used the most were the .20/15.89 pellet from JSB and the .20/18.9 slug from NOE. The pellets were at about 915fps. And the slugs in the 875-880 range. So both about 30foot pounds.

The vast majority of the successful pellet shots were out to about 115 yards. The slug was easier to connect on the farther shots, primarily a function of the BC (0.048 with this particular pellet, versus 0.09 with this particular slug).

When comparing the shots out to 115-120 yards, the pellet thumps em harder, as evidenced by the sound, and the frequency of "dead right there."

The slug often ice picks them, not making nearly as much of a "PHUWOOMPH" sound at impact. And with the slugs they would often run 15-20 feet before kneeling over dead. They were dead dogs running of course, but didn't know it yet.

NSA lead is harder than JSB lead. Not sure that's all of the difference, but probably at least part of it.

 

[EncoreUneFois]

These posts cover the whole issue. What is important can be summed up in two points 1) Hitting what you aim at. 2) Kinetic energy dump. Both are required to hunt ethically. I personally have not found Hades (at least in .25) to be reliably accurate outside of about 30m.

 

[EdinGa]

Plenty of tissue damage from these little slugs. They are only a little over 20 fpe at the muzzle so energy definitely isn't the killer.

 

[nervoustrig]

Agreed regarding tissue damage being the important metric. But energy can be a useful proxy for tissue damage. A projectile which expands dissipates more of its energy precisely because it has interacted with (damaged) more tissue.

 

[dizzums]

with pellet guns its all energy ..
for the smaller calibers its how far they penetrate mostly .. the idea that you bought 'killer pellets' is just a marketing ploy .. ..the only weapon that effectively 'expands' a projectile increasing tissue damage is a high powered rifle firearm .. 'holler points' and fruitcake 'deathgasm' ammo for anything less is all hype and marketing ..so focus on getting a gun that can sling heavier pellets faster, not fancy ammo ..

 

[Scotay42]

I shoot black walnuts in the tree and on the ground. A hades pellet in 22 will put a hole through one. A javelin slug will make it explode. All i needed to know for what to use for varmints.

 

[beerthief]

I use Wadcutter's in .177 and .22 . the flat head just knock's squirrels for a loop . never had a pass thru or a run off .
P.S. The wad's in .22 is like watching a "Dirty Harry movie " and this is with <12 FPE springer or a 13.2 FPE PCP

 

[EdinGa]

I use Wadcutter's in .177 and .22 . the flat head just knock's squirrels for a loop . never had a pass thru or a run off .
P.S. The wad's in .22 is like watching a "Dirty Harry movie " and this is with <12 FPE springer or a 13.2 FPE PCP

.25 wadcutters lay down some smack too.

 

[beerthief]

.25 wadcutters lay down some smack too. View attachment 390736

OH YEAH !

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Never seen anything hit like a griffin ldc slug. I never tried the fx hybrids, I expect they'd be very similar.

Typically use 22 cal. I've hunted plenty with hades at 960fps. Not very impressive expansion or damage in my experience. The ldc slugs hit like they're exploding inside the target. Even at 50fpe in 22 if I hit a grey squirrel in the chest, at close range, I do not get a pass through. That's something else entirely. that's 25gr at 950fps. I'm pretty sure I'd get a pass thru with normal pellets at 20fpe. That and the slugs are extremely accurate. Flight time is much shorter, trajectory is much flatter. Shooting pellets at range comparatively you feel like you can look over at a clock and start counting seconds till impact.

That all said, I still tend to use pellets most of the time because it is not often I take these long shots. And most of my time is spent plinking with pellets, so my favorite rifle is typically sighted in and dialed in for pellets. I don't even bother with the hades. Either 16gr or 18gr Diabolos to the dome do the job just fine.

 

[Scotay42]

Never seen anything hit like a griffin ldc slug. I never tried the fx hybrids, I expect they'd be very similar.

Typically use 22 cal. I've hunted plenty with hades at 960fps. Not very impressive expansion or damage in my experience. The ldc slugs hit like they're exploding inside the target. Even at 50fpe in 22 if I hit a grey squirrel in the chest, I do not get a pass through. That's something else entirely.

Griffin and javelin are very good. Griffin is the softest out there by design and javelin offers best of both worlds,those british and south african boys know their pcp stuff. Thick hide will open a soft slug no problem and in the dome they dump energy even faster