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What is your standard for accuracy?

I know that my point of view is very limited because I am not en EBR shooter.

As a hunter there are parameters that make me feel comfortable when shooting to an animal:

- confidence of not missing the heart of a deer at 60 yards (.357 or .30 Cal.)

- confidence of not missing the brain of a coyote at 70 yards (.25 or .30 Cal)

- knowing that if I miss a dove at 120 yards it was me, not the rifle (.177, .22 or .25 Cal).

For me a rifle that fulfill that criteria is considered accurate.

I just have less than a month with the Sidewinders that give confidence of shooting at very long range with absolute accuracy at 190 yards, but I have only made one kill of a bird at 120 yards, so is too soon to objectively say at what distance I would have to hit every time with those rifles.

As you can see my point of view is very different to what an EBR shooter could consider accurate.
 
Agree 100%. I have good days and bad days. The guns shoot the same either way…….I don’t!!
I can go from one hole to where the heck did that one go ? In a blink of a eye..🤤. Ya, a air gun can be fickle . More mood swings then a ex ol' lady
 
I was thinking some of what @Emu articulated. The confidence that comes with the ability to shoot comfortably within certain ranges. I keep targets and notes to remind me of my capabilities and my guns’ capabilities. Just because I was able to shoot accurately at some point doesn’t mean I retain that ability perpetually. If I put a gun down for a while, it’s time to punch some paper to get a feel for it again. Once I’m satisfied with what I see, I feel ready to hunt. This works for me because it has proven effective. I remember the couple of animals that I did not recover or the handful that suffered longer than I was comfortable with. That drives me to practice and practice build confidence.

I don’t regularly measure group size. I want see how close my POI is to my POA. I want that first shot to hit where I aim, the second shot too (I want one of them to be a kill shot). I’m generally not shooting at the same animal more than twice. I can’t stress this enough, I have noticed a direct correlation between how this plays out on paper and on quarry. If I have a pattern of nicking a bullseye while practicing, I’ve seen it play out where I nick the eye socket of a squirrel. Aim at the eye with the gun slightly canted and hit between the ear and the eye. It really looks the same on paper with shots hitting right of my POA. This also means shooting paper before going out in various temperatures to verify holds. Once the gun proves a satisfactory level of accuracy, I have to do my part and know what I’m doing to achieve the desired result. Even then there are other factors in the equation to consider.
 
being a hunter, my standards are this sticky label @ 30-50yrds.
i will go 1" for my big bores at that distance.
i take my shots when i know there adequate only.

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I was thinking some of what @Emu articulated. The confidence that comes with the ability to shoot comfortably within certain ranges. I keep targets and notes to remind me of my capabilities and my guns’ capabilities. Just because I was able to shoot accurately at some point doesn’t mean I retain that ability perpetually. If I put a gun down for a while, it’s time to punch some paper to get a feel for it again. Once I’m satisfied with what I see, I feel ready to hunt. This works for me because it has proven effective. I remember the couple of animals that I did not recover or the handful that suffered longer than I was comfortable with. That drives me to practice and practice build confidence.

I don’t regularly measure group size. I want see how close my POI is to my POA. I want that first shot to hit where I aim, the second shot too (I want one of them to be a kill shot). I’m generally not shooting at the same animal more than twice. I can’t stress this enough, I have noticed a direct correlation between how this plays out on paper and on quarry. If I have a pattern of nicking a bullseye while practicing, I’ve seen it play out where I nick the eye socket of a squirrel. Aim at the eye with the gun slightly canted and hit between the ear and the eye. It really looks the same on paper with shots hitting right of my POA. This also means shooting paper before going out in various temperatures to verify holds. Once the gun proves a satisfactory level of accuracy, I have to do my part and know what I’m doing to achieve the desired result. Even then there are other factors in the equation to consider.
Ezana you captured a lot of what I was trying to say, as have some other posts.
My practice, although not ideal, helps tremendously with confidence in the field.

Now just because I whacked a chippy at 46 yard last summer with my HW95, doesn’t mean I could walk outside and do it now. I have been fooling around with pcp and not practicing shooting my springers.

So my upcoming field trip will only include pcp guns with the exception of the HW30 as backup, in case of pump failure.
 
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With the springer i think for me its kerp it in 1 inch .. i was turning my bench around from facing north range to the facing south range but measured out 50y for a quick try before pit up and cover up time.

Well , kinda failed . But its not like its all over the place . The hashed off were old shots and a flyer. ( Its the pellet or the wind or somthing not the guy shooting😉).

Anyway stock irons and cphp ,50y

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Darn wind..😁. But i consistently missed low left time after time..👍
 
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I know that my point of view is very limited because I am not en EBR shooter.

As a hunter there are parameters that make me feel comfortable when shooting to an animal:

- confidence of not missing the heart of a deer at 60 yards (.357 or .30 Cal.)

- confidence of not missing the brain of a coyote at 70 yards (.25 or .30 Cal)

- knowing that if I miss a dove at 120 yards it was me, not the rifle (.177, .22 or .25 Cal).

For me a rifle that fulfill that criteria is considered accurate.

I just have less than a month with the Sidewinders that give confidence of shooting at very long range with absolute accuracy at 190 yards, but I have only made one kill of a bird at 120 yards, so is too soon to objectively say at what distance I would have to hit every time with those rifles.

As you can see my point of view is very different to what an EBR shooter could consider accurate.
I have to say that THE ONLY ONE of my .177 rifles that fulfill the parameter is the Vulcan 3 500 mm with the NSA slugs. My Bantam and my Daystate Renegade are out. Those two are accurate just to 50 yards.
 
ive shot guns all my life .. one thing a pellet gun 'is not' is a high power hunting rifle that can drop an elk across the canyon at 600 ... what they do compare to most in my case is a .22lr plinking gun .. if it can hit a quarter sized target(or shotgun shell on end) its pretty derned accurate, and most pcps will do that ... now could i spend 10k$ on a high end target gun setup? of course i could if that was what the goal was and i was i to competing or something .. im not ..quarter at 50 is accurate enough in the real world for a plinking gun ..
 
I dont actually have a standard for what I consider accurate , I think its more on a rifle to rifle basis, what is this rifle used for, what is acceptable , etc .... what do you consider accurate? For my hunting rifles its first shot accuracy, for my plinkers its a whole mag in a dime at 50 yards... 100 yards id love every group to be MOA but realistically for me and my current level of shooting something close to MOA is accurate.

People have asked me about how certain rifles of mine are performing... and Ive noticed a lot of people lately are EXPERT SNIPERS ... with their mouths, not their airguns.

I recently got "Wow, so the accuracy really isn't there" in regards to shooting 1.25" - 1.5" 20 (YES TWENTY) shot groups at 100 with slugs, fired from an airgun I had less than an hour behind off a poop table lol.... excuse me? I don't normally get bugged by this sort of thing but when looking through posts from the people saying things like this only to find they are sub 50 yard shooters and base everything off 30 yard groups I just have to laugh.

Watching too much youtube? lol
Shake off that shroud of negative energy that has been draped upon thee brother, cone back into the light and share thine wisdom hard earned.

Keep on being you man, and DO NOT let the ignorant or misinformed sway you from your purpose. HAVE FUN and make a contribution to the collective when you are able.

Your standards for accuracy or grouping or minute of whatevers head is the same as most of all the rest of us. MOA is a baseline for judgement, and getting smaller is always way more better. Way way more better.
Going to 100 and expecting MOA is not a reasonable expectation from anyone who does not have many tins under their belt at that yardage, IN THE WIND. It is a marketing panacea for the mediocre, served by the spoonfull through clever 'influencing'.
 
I have notice that the scope in my case is VERY important in order to achieve accuracy.

I get better accuracy of the hunting scopes (Vortex, Leupold, Athlon) with a reticle with some points of reference (mildot, BDC or so...) than with the FFP scopes that I have.

I need to clearly see the reticle.
I’m with you there. On my pesting rifle I never change magnification. I use a Element Helix 6-24x50 SFP on my primary pest gun, it stays at 6-8x. I only turn it up if I’m punching paper
 
Well clearly there is the accuracy of the gun, while trying to minimize the impact of the shooter (benchrested, perfect conditions, all the time in the world for a good shot, and eliminating ones that are known to be bad due to the shooter like with bad trigger pulls), and then there is the accuracy of the gun with the shooter in field or hunting conditions (imperfect rest, constraints on the shot, everything counts etc.). I like to know the accuracy of the gun first, and that is what the rest of this speaks to.

OK – let me go ahead and proclaim this up front: I am a nerd that likes to geek out on data. 😉

With that said, I’ll now say that I HATE group size as a the key measurable when talking about accuracy of guns, and here is why – it “throws away” most of the useful information! How? Because we take a certain number of shots (typically 5, but 10 is better – but people don’t like 10 because the groups are bigger . . . ) all of which carry usable information about how far off the POA they fall, but we throw most of it away keeping just the max spread across the group. What a waste . . . .

So when I want to really understand how a gun shoots, I set up and wait to run a true test of the gun, shot in a way to minimize me and conditions as an influence. To do this I need to wait for shooting conditions that are dead still – or at least as dead still as we can get (there is no such thing as no air movement, but we can get close, typically in the morning on a very calm day). When I have those conditions, I shoot:
  • Far enough for the gun that there will be a spread in the results – 50 yards is the shortest that I like to do this, as even with very good guns we tend not to get many shots at the exact same POI
  • Take 100 shots at 100 individual bulls
  • Use target paper flat against smoot duct seal in the target trap (this gives holes that look like wadcutters at target paper for best measurement)
  • With every shot taken, with the POA trying to be perfectly on the center dot of the bull, seek no called fliers (if there is one pulled, it is dropped from the test and replaced). This is about the gun, not the shooter
  • Measure every POI against POA to the closest tenth of a millimeter in the X and Y directions
  • Enter all data into Excel for analysis, consisting of:
    • Determine average offset needed to have the average on the POA (great for really nailing down scope settings
    • Plot each individual shot without “losing” data in the “large hole” view that is created with groups
    • Generate statistical models that allow for determining random (and thus average) groups of various size
Anyways, when you do this, you TRULY understand what a gun can do. Then you can add your own variation on top of that as you work on your own contribution to the system variation.

The plot below shows the kind of results this can yield. This particular gun puts roughly 50% of all shots inside MOA, and while that does not sound great, do know that mathematically this results in an average of 5 shot groups being under 1 MOA (statistically, the smallest 50 yard 5 shot group should be about 0.1” ctc , and the largest at just over an inch, but the average would be 0.58” at 50 yards – or 0.76” for ten shot groups).

As you can guess, group size is “perfectly acceptable” once one understands what drives it and what it means – but it is a lousy first order metric. Even on a gun shooting as well as this one was, with an average group size under 1 MOA, it sshould be expected to have ~25% of the shots land outside 1 MOA from the POA at 50 yards – if everything else was perfect (which it almost never is in real life) . . .

One thing that I have learned from this type of work and analysis is that most of what people think of as “extreme accuracy” is nowhere near as accurate as they think it is . . . .



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Never could get it better but noticed once again that hw globe slipping up its dovetail.. i put some gorilla glue in the cut ...lol. maybe that will help hold it for awhile.. .

Anyway a guy gets a bad barrel and can't make it right hes doomed or in the hassle to hope they make it right . I jad a rws/ Diana long ago that was a disaster.. it was a gun that made me never want another rws/Diana again. ( But a kind sole can gift me a air king id be ok with that to retry another .. )
 
Personally I try to shoot 5-10 shot groups, if I’m on my game(I’m the big factor) dime sized groups at 50. I prefer 50 yard groups, it’s what I’ve always sighted in at with 22lr and airguns. I use to have a golf ball mounted at 100 yards and if I could hit it 7 out of 10 I was happy. Some days it was easy, other days I just went back inside. Supposedly a local place is gonna do 50 and 100 yard benchrest this weekend, I’ll probably get my butt kicked but I think it will be fun.