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Bit of FUN today ... no shooting just tinkering around.

Guns too loud !! ... Cure, make some insert-able baffle / spacer assemblies removing that weird tube set up. It fits back together & one would never know .. and it is QUIETER !!

Made some delrin sleeves that get split with a razor blade & snapped onto cocking handle. They roll under your fingers and feel excellent when speed cocking. ( After & Before pictures )

Fit in 2 thin .003" shims on both sides of trigger pivot post to eliminate the side/side wiggle present.

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Two fold mod ....

These type valves being similar to others using Throat pressure at time of poppet opening to also assist getting valve shut.

If you have faster / easier pellet or slug break away or even more cork in bottle tight & slow to break away the amplitude & pressure that is harnessed in getting valve closed changes. Differences in throat pressure as well time any given pressure is present will alter closing speed and therefor dwell.
By choking the flow downstream of poppet yet before the actual barrel you create a more consistent back pressure value within throat of valve which I've found in past years of R&D will lower the ES value shot to shot. You are creating sonic choking at a certain size ( pending pressure ) having the greatest expansion of the compressed air happen post restriction within barrel.

All My own R&D has been with conventional hammer knock open poppet balanced valves, tho gas dynamics ( Pneumatics ) stay similar in cause & effect best I know & understand.
The above is proven to be factual and test data supports it ... now a SPOOL valve we're going to assume the physics remain intact until testing supports something different.
 
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Lewis said:
To shut the valve faster we can open the hole in the end of the valve pin. It is very small but opening it by a few thousandths will allow more air to return to the other side of the valve sooner.
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Tho would create a GREATER reliance on throat Pressure & Time being even more consistent. That opposed to why the tapered transfer technique was explored prior with this type valving.
 
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Motorhead said:
Tho would create a GREATER reliance on throat Pressure & Time being even more consistent. That opposed to why the tapered transfer technique was explored prior with this type valving.
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I would imagine it would also result in requiring higher pressures to achieve the same velocity. Often times higher pressures net tighter ES and SD. Just a thought. Most of this is way over my head, just looking at the path of flow and areas of least resistance. Can't wait for you and others with the skills and abilities to continue to find areas of improvement. So far I am quite impressed with it out of the box. If it can be made even better, then I am very exited to see what the coming months of experimentation will bring.
 
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Lewis said:
I would imagine it would also result in requiring higher pressures to achieve the same velocity. Often times higher pressures net tighter ES and SD. Just a thought. Most of this is way over my head, just looking at the path of flow and areas of least resistance. Can't wait for you and others with the skills and abilities to continue to find areas of improvement. So far I am quite impressed with it out of the box. If it can be made even better, then I am very exited to see what the coming months of experimentation will bring.
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My thoughts being NOT higher pressure, but that of a bit longer Solenoid dwell ( being similar to a tad more hammer weight )

We're exploring ..... :rolleyes:
 
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Lewis said:
So far changing the dwell has not had much effect on velocity or air usage. I would have imagined that the dwell/LPR would function similar to the hammer spring. The Redwolf uses time and voltage to control the valve in relation to the pressure available. This seems to behave differently.
Let the exploration begin!
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My weighting scale is that of a custom .30 cal m-rod I built a few years ago. While it takes @ 300 more PSI for compatible power, the air use is VASTLY better and it operates eerily quiet for the output. The Skout in spite its massive porting and asumed greater effeciency potential just sounds like it is wasting air ... tho due too valve tech may not be so ?

Yup .... going to be interesting & hope some others can contribute more meat & potatoes data or thoughts.
 
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Lewis said:
So far changing the dwell has not had much effect on velocity or air usage. I would have imagined that the dwell/LPR would function similar to the hammer spring. The Redwolf uses time and voltage to control the valve in relation to the pressure available. This seems to behave differently.
Let the exploration begin!
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Just FYI, the Red Wolf dwell and voltage control the hammer strike, and have nothing to do with the valve.
 
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Thanks for the clarification Mike, I understand the electronics in a RW do not control the valve directly, but the hammer opens the valve, making the dwell and voltage of the solenoid act similarly to the weight of the hammer spring in a conventional mechanical system. I was pointing out that in the Skout this relationship appears so far to behave differently or to have less of a direct effect on velocity.
 
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I have been considering the Skout but would need to sell a gun to buy it. Basically I can get a really good deal on around 10 Hatsan rifles or I can buy 1 Skout.
The Hatsan rifles would be for fun whilst the Skout would be for competition shooting if I got it. I'm looking for a new high performance prs rifle, does the Skout work for that?

I did have a FX Panthera 700 .22 but a person bought it before I had the chance to try it (I have a small airgun store but can't afford to keep stock so everything is ordered).
What is the most accurate air rifle for 100meters/yards? Can the Skout compete?
 
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MadCowCrazy2 said:
I'm looking for a new high performance prs rifle, does the Skout work for that?

I did have a FX Panthera 700 .22 but a person bought it before I had the chance to try it.
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I don't own a Skout but this is just my opinion. Just by the looks of it, the Skout Epoch looks a little too tall to me if you measure from the bottom of the pistol grip to the top of the scope turret. It just looks too bulky for PRS. Just imagine trying to shoot through a ladder or other barricades with a bag. The Epoch also doesn't have a place to mount a bipod currently unless you get a bottle clamp mount.

Your Panthera would have been perfect for PRS with the rear bottle only. That's what it was designed for. I want to see Skout come out with a tube cylinder version in a rifle or carbine configuration for hunting/PRS especially because it's able to run at low reg pressures. JMO.
 
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IMO .... PRS type events & styles of weapon best suiting it are so on the fringe of AG use or sports it is not really a valid comparison to make.
The SKOUT is a Full Size AG, Bullpup in layout 100%. Longest barrel in the shortest overall length ;)
This manufacturer in my very limited time talking with them is 100% in the game and shockingly serious to get it right.

They ( Skout ) has even seen & heard some of my input shared thus far & are ENCOURAGING to play and see where & if further refinements might be found.
Never even heard of such willingness from a manufacturer to allow valid tinkering / alterations w/o voiding any warranty.
 
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Motorhead said:
Never even heard of such willingness from a manufacturer to allow valid tinkering / alterations w/o voiding any warranty.
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This speaks volumes of Skout to me.

Granted Scott knows his way around air rifles but still. I also realize it is a symbiotic relationship, to have someone knowledgeable tinker with your rifles for refinements, a beta tester of sorts, but they seem far more responsive than another AG company with an all electronic gun (yes I do own one).

I have little need for a .30, but a .25 with a .177 would be just perfect for me. Waiting and watching the progress being made.
Thank you all for this elequent and informative discussion.
 
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Word is .... SKOUT has become aware WE AIR GUN / PCP shooters like to keep our guns at the ready, unlike Paint ballers will degass and put there gear away for another day.
So, as of recently EPOCH rifles leaving the manufacturer are being fitted with TANK SHUT OFF valves. This allowing tank to be kept filled between uses,valve turned to OFF, yet via the supplied bleed screw, take the internal pneumatic system to zero pressure. They will provide the shown SHUT OFF valve to those who don't have one on there earlier delivered guns.

A simple ON/OFF valve between bottle & main chassis. :love:

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Lewis said:
Beautiful.
Scott, have you removed the bleed valve yet? What are the threads? I would love to place a tank pressure gauge there since I'm a lefty. I would especially love to switch places with the two.
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In an attempt to unscrew the bleed screw, it stops a few rotations out
CCW. Removed knob as well ???/ Not explored it further.
 
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