Tuning Why do others not copy twistrates FX superior liners

[ladwict]

I believe that FX has meanwhile found the close to “ holy grail” of twist rates to shoot pellets and slugs equally well with their” superior liners .” With the production methods of the liner production system of FX where the rifling is pressed in from the outside FX have the possibility to test easy and cost effective many variables in very ahort time frame. Wich they obviously did according to the many videos about this subject on the internet. Conventional barrel production methods are not so easy and economic to do such extensive testing . This advantage from FX made that FX obviously found the best twist rates for their liners / barrels supported by the results exposed all around. The South African partners from FX have contributed a lot to this experimenting and developing on what many shooters around the globe can be thankful for.
My question now is why do the conventional barrel producers lik CZ and Lothar Walther not just copy the so well developed features of the FX liners into their barrels to achieve equally well results with their supplies to the airgun brands. It looks so easy from the outside to do so hence have equally allround barrels that shoot pellets and slugs equally well.
Thanks for your appreciated opinions here

 

[yenniedn]

Good question. To answer it: I don't know.

 

[qball]

My theory is most barrel manufactures could care less about airgun barrels due to low volume.

 

[rigbymauser]

My Revere in .177cal shoot pelllets and slugs equally well with conventional rifled barrel from LW. Why copy FX?..

 

[madeintheuk]

It’s not all about twist rate. The fact that fx can press their rifling from the outside (smooth twist) will make it completely different to anything else on the market. Other types of rifling may change how the pellet/slug flies and hence need different twist rates.

This is all of my opinion, and no actual facts.

 

[ladwict]

My Revere in .177cal shoot pelllets and slugs equally well with conventional rifled barrel from LW. Why copy FX?..

From what ai read on the internet your Revere seems to be the individual exeption whereas any random FX barrel does this well.

 

[ladwict]

It’s not all about twist rate. The fact that fx can press their rifling from the outside (smooth twist) will make it completely different to anything else on the market. Other types of rifling may change how the pellet/slug flies and hence need different twist rates.

This is all of my opinion, and no actual facts.

I could imagine your explanation hold lots of truth. Also in terms of needed cleaning the “smooth twist” seems to have its advantage. ( also in my experience)

 

[Leon83]

Why would other producers want their product to be so randomly accurate like fx liners?

 

[Airgunmann]

I think we would be better with a tad faster twist rates than what fx is offering

 

[ladwict]

Why would other producers want their product to be so randomly accurate like fx liners?

Cheers !

 

[ladwict]

I think we would be better with a tad faster twist rates than what fx is offering

What makes you think that ?

 

[Airgunmann]

Well sub sonic loads for pb take a faster twist rate to stabilize bullets under the sound barrier
it really depends on the length and the weight of the bullets for twist rates one size doesn't fit all the heavier the slug faster twist is needed and if you to boat tail bullets it changes again

 

[jmohme]

Patent laws?

 

[Airgunmann]

Well sub sonic loads for pb take a faster twist rate to stabilize bullets under the sound barrier
it really depends on the length and the weight of the bullets for twist rates one size doesn't fit all the heavier the slug faster twist is needed and if you to boat tail bullets it changes again

22lr standard vel is subsonic it stabilizes 40 gr with 1/16 twist but it won't stabilize 60 gr and I think my heavy slug liner says 1 in 18 on it that's why I think we could use a little faster twist rate I would like to try 1 in 12 for heavier 44 gr+. For 25 cal slugs

 

[Removed]

Because they haven't been proven to work better with slugs that's why. It's propaganda, plenty of other barrels, one being TJ enterprises. FX was not the first to develop slug barrels, just the first to highly market them as "superior" lol

 

[qball]

Twist rate isn't everything, the bore size and consistency is harder to do. All manufactures have their twist rate design and twist rate calculators are free online. Anyone in the barrel business knows what twist rate is needed for which length slugs. However the problem is also the need to make multiple barrels with different twist rates, that again goes back to my lack of interest from barrel makers theory as airgun barrel sale is MUCH lower in volume compared to their PB barrels.

In .22 cal FX currently has 3 twist rates:
- superior 1:24 - slugs up to 25 grain
- superior heavy 1:16 - slugs 25-33 grain
- superior heavy 800mm 1:14 - Slugs 35-40 grain

To put things in perspective here is a list of current .22 FX barrels:
300mm superior
500mm superior
500mm superior heavy
600mm superior
600mm superior heavy
700mm superior
700mm superior heavy
800mm superior heavy(there might be 2 versions too)

So how many twist rate and barrels are LW or CZ willing to make for low volume low cost airgun barrels? Obviously LW will make custom twist rate IF you pay enough.......twist rate is NOT the issue, producing them and cost are the issue. Plus FX barrel manufacturing process is MUCH simpler so that also enables them to make many different barrels with different twist rates and calibers and length. FX is the only airgun manufacture that produce their own barrel at scale so they can produce as many or few of each twist rate as they wish, no one else can do that.


To sum it up: anyone can copy FX design but it's FX manufacturing prowess that no one can copy!!!


Then there is the tune, most traditional airguns that doesn't have some sort of modern balanced valve with light hammer that creates efficiency and power at the same time will not shoot slugs well. Good example is if the gun has a straight pull back bolt action then the hammer is very heavy because if they increase the spring rate then it's very hard to cock the gun. Side lever solves most of that problem but the valve still need to be efficient and delivers a lot more power as slugs have much higher friction. slugs are slower than pellets at the same weight and then most slugs are MUCH heavier, not many guns out there has the ability to push a .22 cal 38 or 40 grain slugs at over 1000 fps that's a repeater, adjustable, light.......



.........but FX is all marketing.

 

[Sell682]

What FX does better than anyone in the industry is their marketing machine of YouTubers.

They make great guns, but everywhere you turn on youtube, it’s Impact this, Wildcat that, even with predominantly firearm based channels they have their key marketers front and center being ambassadors for airguns (great for the hobby) and showcasing FX. So who you think people will assimilate with airguns .. FX.

Daystate , Air Arms , RAW are falling behind even though their platforms are proven and just as capable.

My RAW shoots slugs just as well if not better than my FX with superior liner so take it for what it’s worth.

 

[qball]

Clearly FX is better at marketing, zero doubt about it!!! However, without their manufacturing how will all these people get their guns to be on YouTube? How long have people waited for their DWolf? How many are out there even today?

Some guns can shoot some slugs well, my Impact haven’t found a quality slug in the right size that it can’t shoot well. My impact in .22 have shot every NSA slugs from 17 grain to 38 grain slug with just a liner change, all with great results once the tune is correct. Then it shot every NSA slugs 26 to 43 grain in the current .25 configuration, 80 FPE laser to 300 yards and it doesn’t have the 800mm barrel. Call it marketing all you all want but I don’t know any other guns that can do the same.


No other brand has even remotely close to the volume on guns in the same price range…….they all want to but apparently only lacking a youtuber. Question indeed is why don’t they copy FX marketing? ANYONE can start a YouTube channel so they should go do it.

 

[450BM]

What FX does better than anyone in the industry is their marketing machine of YouTubers.

They make great guns, but everywhere you turn on youtube, it’s Impact this, Wildcat that, even with predominantly firearm based channels they have their key marketers front and center being ambassadors for airguns (great for the hobby) and showcasing FX. So who you think people will assimilate with airguns .. FX.

Daystate , Air Arms , RAW are falling behind even though their platforms are proven and just as capable.

My RAW shoots slugs just as well if not better than my FX with superior liner so take it for what it’s worth.

It’s more than just marketing… https://rockymountainairgunchallenge.com/rmac-2022/

 

[qball]

It’s more than just marketing… https://rockymountainairgunchallenge.com/rmac-2022/
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According to anonymous internet sources RMAC only invited a few token shooters from other brands……for marketing purposes……..