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Xtreme Field Target Marksman Division

As commented elsewhere, Ben Spencer (Match Director for XFT @ Phoenix Rod and Gun Club) has been working on this for a VERY long time.

I'll start with a real-world example from the matches here in AZ, as an intro into what I've seen happen more than once.
This is a mostly true story about a new field target shooter. We'll call him Les (not his real name). Les found out about the existence of an airgun specialty shop in Gilbert, AZ called Airguns of Arizona. Perhaps he drove by it one day, or maybe found it online. Either way, he found himself in the store. He wasn't even sure of his intended use, but the next thing he knew he was walking out with a spanking new Benjamin Akela in .22, with a new 4-12x scope mounted up top. For ammo he had a couple tins of wadcutters, and was glad to get them too, with all the supply chain issues! Not long after purchasing the Akela he stumbled across information online about the summer-time field target matches held up in the tall cool pines just south of Flagstaff. The light turned on, "I could compete in field target with my Akela!" So, the next Saturday morning he finds himself at a field target match. He loved the experience, and the hook was firmly set.

From there, most of you can guess where that ended up. If you've shot field target for any length of time you're aware of the "arms race," that eventually engulfs all ft shooters. Les found that he loves field target, and has since spent a bundle on electronic guns, and high magnification scopes, and high BC pellets and on and on and on. The sad part is that for every Les, there's probably 3-5 other guys that enjoyed their first exposure to field target just as much, but couldn't ever see themselves throwing so much money at the "sport." And thus, those guys never returned.

The funny thing is that nearly all ft shooters were once Les. The majority of those of us that are still involved have played the arms race, often as fast and loose as our wives would let us get away with. And (I feel) that's mostly because there simply isn't anywhere in field target to actually be competitive WITHOUT playing the arms race.

Being realistic about the reality of the above situation is what got Ben thinking about creating a division where that arms race is quite literally against the rules. A place where folks can compete with a gun that doesn't cost over a grand (and even up to $4500 on the far end of the spectrum!!!). A place where you don't need a $1000 telescope on the top of your gun, with a wholly comical dinner-plate sized wheel (that's another $120+ for the wheel, mind you) strapped to the side of the scope. It's not unheard of for a guy to be carrying $10,000+ worth of gear from lane to lane at a field target match! And that's not an exaggeration because we've got more than one guy campaigning such a rig at our AZ matches.

And so was born, The Marksman Division of Extreme Field Target.
Simple rules, with a heavy emphasis on supreme inclusion:
  • $800 maximum MSRP for rifle
    • Must be mechanically 100% "stock", ie no aftermarket internals (for example, no re-barrelling)
    • Barrel and trigger components can be polished, but no parts can be replaced with parts that didn't come in the gun
    • External creativity allowed, within reason (Ben specifically gave the example of adding a barrel band)
      • "within reason of course"
  • $500 maximum MSRP for scope
  • 25x maximum scope magnification
The Marksman Division will shoot at the same targets, from the same position as all other XFT classes (bucket/stool and shooting sticks/bipod).
Marksman shooters can choose pellets or slugs, but either must be commercially produced and available for sale, just like other XFT classes.

The beauty of this new class is that it allows shooter skill to be on full display. While Marksman shooters will only be officially competing against Marksman Division shooters, it'll be pretty sweet for them to get a higher score than the guy shooting the $10,000+ rig, talk about bragging rights!!!! And that's fully possible in XFT, since all the distances are posted, the crazy expensive scope isn't necessary to range find by focus, such a big part of "regular" sub 20fpe field target.

Medals will awarded as they are for the other classes of XFT. You must beat someone to get a medal. ie, if two people are shooting Marksman, the high score will get a medal. If three people are shooting Marskman, the first two will get a medal. If more than 3 shooters are Marksman, the first 3 will be awarded medals.

Ben has also been in contact with many of the manufacturers I'll list off in the next few comments for potential sponsorship of the Marksman Division through prize money. Assuming some manufacturers or retailers want in on that, prize money will be awarded in the same fashion as the medals.

This is the place for: Crosman/Benjamin, Umarex, Kral, Air Venturi, AEA, Hatsan, JTS, Seneca, Hammerli, Reximex, Snowpeak, Gamo, Xisico, DAR, etc, etc etc, to compete.

I kinda want to get in on the Marksman Division action myself.....I'm thinking an Air Force Talon in .22 (MSRP of $799.99 so JUUUUSSTT barely legal), with one of my ole trusty SWFA fixed power scopes would fit into the rules....or maybe a JTS or a DAR.....

What gun and scope would you choose?

Feel free to discuss at will, Ben said he'd love to hear what people think of this concept. Suggestions, ideas, etc.

First time Marksman Division will be offered is the upcoming November 19th night match.
 
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By December I will have a Walther Reign .25 and an Element optic 4x16x44 FFP as a loaner. so this means there is no excuse not to try this exciting new venue. Just contact me about it as only 2 -3 per lane usually so the first 2, maybe 3 to reserve it as it will be first come first serve. Keep in mind the 2 -3 sharing would have to shoot on the same lanes. I would like to thank Peykan B for donating this pkg. He is a TRUE ambassador of this great sport. Anyone interested, please contact me asap for reservations of the loaner gun for the December match.
 
Just a thought: if you make the total limit $1300 instead of separating the cost maybe some of the sponsors could sell package deals. An example would be a non-regulated Huntsman or an HW100 with a good scope.
Played out the scenarios and I think this is the best overall. The reason is, let's face it the higher-end guns are easier to shoot. They are more accurate and refined as well. So someone with a Huntsmen (which is known for being one of the most accurate guns ever built) beats a bunch of $300-$800 guns. The optics of that, IMO is what we have in regular FT and equipment race. I think a MARKSMAN is a shooter that learns and overcomes his gun's woes and still shoots extremely well with it. Mark my words the $300-$800 guns that are out WILL beat a lot of the big-name guns in upcoming matches.
 
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I think it's a good idea.

However my next comment might open a can of worms, but someone is going to say it; might as well be me.

Other than the pice constraints, it seems like a similar goal to why AAFTA Hunter Class originated; that being a less expensive and intimidating gateway into the game. Of course that's a good thing.

No need to tell Ben how Hunter Clash (Freudian slip?) has evolved through the years, as I'm sure he's well aware. Likely also partly the reason for the price constraints in Marksman. Good thinking. Rather, FORETHOUGHT.(y)

As noble and well-intentioned as is the concept of Marksman Class, unfortunately I foresee that not being enough to immunize it from cross-wired competitors pushing the rules boundaries. Might be hard to police stronger hammer-springs, lighter trigger and sear springs, and other illegitimate internal modifications. Pardon that observation, but I fear they'll prove reality (sooner or later).

Nevertheless, I love the concept and may consider doing something similar in TEXtreme.:unsure:
 
Been there & chased such classes in other sports / hobbies.


Whats stock & legal per the class rules is subjective. Only when a compliance TECH is schooled and knowledgeable of all equipment & gear they may encounter and a Protest of compliance clause is put in place can it be a fair game. Which miens at ANY said event you need folks who actually have a clue on what gear / equipment is too keep folks in line. Then if a protest clause is put in place, able to call a FOUL.
It sounds great, but reality is something running on the rules fringe edges as written having some exceed those said limits because they can get away with it.

Wide open and easily transparent limits of what legal is far easier that "Discover & prove if I'm cheating" type games.

Love the idea of it ... but enforcing or keeping such games fair takes a whole lot of fun out of it.

Now said .. at a club level between friends & buddies absolutely.

Just a rebuttal ...
 
I recall seeing a rule in a benchrest game where they defined a plinker class for 22LR. The gun had to be $200 or less, but you could use any scope. The rule was anyone can offer to purchase the winner's gun at the end of the match and the winner must be willing to accept $200 for the gun (no scope) or forfeit his award. This is one of the few ways I think you could keep control of a cost restriction.

Another way is to define the brands and makes of guns that are known to meet the class requirements. They do this for 3p sporter air rifle. If a new gun appears on the market and someone wants to use it, they need to submit requests to have the gun approved. When approved it is approved for everyone.

Just placing a dollar amount on something is tough to enforce, because let's say someone buys an AirForce Talon in .22 today at $799.99, and tomorrow the gun now costs $830 - is this gun now illegal in this class? Is the cost today's cost, last year's cost, the price I bought it for on the used market?

PRS has a class (production division) where the rifle must be under the $2.5K limit (originally this was $2K). The MSRP is determined by what is printed on the manufacturer's web site. To prove your way out of the inflation scenario, the competitor needs dated proof of purchase. Additionally, I think if you won matches in the production division, the following season(s) you were no longer allowed to compete in production - you had to move up to compete against the unlimited division.

Figure out how you want to implement your rules and attempt to consider the many ways people will game the rules to their advantage. Be prepared to have arguments about people's kit.
 
@shootermeb, I agree with you on just about all of your points.

Yes, it'll be hard to enforce, nearly impossible if we don't have some morals and operate on the honor system, which is good thing to live by for all aspects of life really. One would hope for something as inconsequential as a fun airgun match we don't have guys gaming the system.

Cheaters are pathetic. If you cheated to win, you simply didn't win.

I like the MSRP needing to come from manufacturers website. And when inflation has pushed a gun over the limit, MSRP from an invoice/receipt. Ben told me he went with MSRP to rule out guys getting a crazy good deal on the sales price of a gun that would otherwise be in a different class of both quality and performance (above the cut-off).

Bout the only point I disagree with is that people will be forced out of Marksman after performing to a certain level or winning a certain amount of times. Ben can maybe offer clarification, but I don't think he intends for this to be looked at as an entry class. I don't foresee any potential winnings in Marksman division ever amounting to the couple thousand dollars required to purchase a Red Wolf or an Impact.
 
You have to consider a pro shooter is good not because of his equipment, but because he knows how to shoot. If you have a pro that buys cheaper equipment to compete in this price capped class, he will stomp all the noobs in that class. As your skill level reaches maturity, only then will you see major returns on your higher quality (priced) equipment.

A new shooter will only be able to extract so much from expensive and precise equipment. It doesn't matter if they have the absolute best equipment above everyone else on the line; if they are not capable of making the perfect shot every time, they will not be winning against the well seasoned shooter using less expensive equipment.

Consider what your capabilities may be if you were given a NASCAR and placed on the pro circuit. This is a "stock" car, technically everyone is on the same playing field with their equipment. Will you win against the pros you are racing against? Probably not, if it's your first time driving a race car. You probably lack the experience to drive the NASCAR to the same proficiency level as a pro, to such an extent that the pro driver could race an inferior car to its max potential and still beat you driving your top of the line NASCAR model.

So, how do you determine someone is too "pro" to be included in your "noob" class?

I will say that accurate equipment is good for training purposes, because it allows you to sort out the differences between shooter error and random chance, and provides a better feedback loop to correcting problems. So, the noob with accurate (not necessarily expensive) equipment should improve faster than the one with insufficient equipment.

The noob shouldn't expect to win anything in their first years of competition. They should be focusing on improving themselves and only comparing their performance to their past performances. Also, have fun and don't worry about the score card. Do you really need to have a special classification to have fun? Maybe this should be reworded to "is the only way you can have fun is by winning?"
 
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It's not a noob class, budget class, or an entry class.

Again, Ben can clarify, but I understood it to be dual-use. A place for those that have never and don't want to ever play the arms race, and also perhaps a challenging division for those who have played and tired of the arms race. ie, you can kick arse with a Red Wolf, how can you do with a DAR?

Yes, consider that a challenge.
 
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One of the aspects of the Marksman Division that I find so intriguing was just brought up by @shootermeb. And that is the colloquial "is it the arrow or indian?"

Let's go back to Les.

He bought two Red Wolfs, a sub 20fpe .177 and a high power. 22 and has risen to often being in the top handful of scores at all matches he attends. He in fact finished extremely high at competetive airgunning's biggest show a month ago. Last night on the phone I asked for his permission to use his entry into field target as a primer for this discussion. We talked about the concept of Ben's Marksman Division a bit and he told me that he could have never finished where he did at EBR and where he regularly does at monthly matches had he not played the "arms race."

That is a stance I also hold, yes the shooter has to have some skill, but no matter how good the shooter is, they'll rarely win with a Benjamin Akela when they're shooting against Red Wolves and Thomas's and USFTs and Impacts and etc etc etc. (and of course there are rare outliers to this, but I'm talking about those of use that are in the bell curve of distribution, the "average" majority that mathematically encompasses most of us and our abilities).

So, the beauty of Marksman.....you can kick arse with an example of the pinnacle of current airgun performance, but how can you do when there's a dollar limit?

Quite the intriguing concept, to me at least.
 
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I think this is a very good idea, I'd like to hear where the $ numbers came from, since $500 seems like a lot for an entry level scope, and $800 for an entry level gun. But it's a start, and ya gotta start somewhere...

One thing I envision that would make it totally fair and equitable would be to have a manufacturer (like UTG, Air Venturi (Avenger), Benjamin (Marauder or Akela), etc. donate some equipment and the shooters get that gun to sight in and shoot for the round. That would make it totally fair, and the best shooter would win under most conditions. No cheating, no pushing the limits...

I can already see the wheels turning when an Air Force Talon is mentioned at $799, and the gun can shoot high power high BC pellets stock, plus an Element Optics $499 scope that pushes the limit for both...
 
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I think this is a very good idea, I'd like to hear where the $ numbers came from, since $500 seems like a lot for an entry level scope, and $800 for an entry level gun. But it's a start, and ya gotta start somewhere...

One thing I envision that would make it totally fair and equitable would be to have a manufacturer (like UTG, Air Venturi (Avenger), Benjamin (Marauder or Akela), etc. donate some equipment and the shooters get that gun to sight in and shoot for the round. That would make it totally fair, and the best shooter would win under most conditions. No cheating, no pushing the limits...

I can already see the wheels turning when an Air Force Talon is mentioned at $799, and the gun can shoot high power high BC pellets stock, plus an Element Optics $499 scope that pushes the limit for both...
Yep yep. I threw the Talon out there for specifically that reason, high BC pellets with enough oomph to get them up to speed, AND the cherry on top is a Lothar barrel. Just have to deal with the infamous frame flex and trigger. Will those two be big enough detriments to performance that the gains made from the LW barrel and high fpe will come out in the wash? Who knows, but what fun to play through the possible scenarios because similar pros and cons exist for all the legal Marksman Division scope/gun combos.

I think Ben arrived at dollar limits by studying the market and looking at MSRPs.

I also agree that the $500 is generous for scope choice. I've often used my $250-300 SWFAs in the non-Marksman class and done well with it. So, the $500 affords a Marksman shooter quite a nice scope.

And $800 at first glance seems high too, but doesn't go far when you're buying a PCP.

I think mostly yes, the $ limits came from, "ya gotta start somewhere".
 
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The reason for the scope price was 2 reasons.
1st since yardages are given and you can use a range finder you are really not gaining anything by spending so much on a scope.
2nd the new shooters may need more quality of glass to get settled in. Even if they are aware that they do not need to see holes in paper. I hear all the time from shooters with 25x 1000$ scopes, "I cant see where I hit. So until you learn an experience that a little comfort from a better scope may make you feel more comfortable but it is not an advantage.