N50 Card with Annie 64 MPR

[tommyb]

Shot one card today, and wind was light. Had one flag out about 7 yards from bench. Shooting Anschutz .22 LR 64 MPR with Lapua Center-X 40G. For whatever reason, my first row ( bottom ) is always the lowest scoring row. Took me a while to figure out wind holds, but then got going with the rest of the card. Scored with .030 scoring N50 plug.

 

[tommyb]

Brought the FX Boss .25 out to the range today to shoot a couple of N50 cards. Wind was light, 1-3 mph and very manageable. Had 2 flags deployed and shot the MK2 33g pellets. Mike ( CC ) did a nice job on tuning this gun when he owned it, and I am not touching anything right now. I think the MK2's are averaging around 912 FPS. Anytime I can hit a 240 or higher with an N50 card, I'm happy with an air gun. The guys at the N50 Nationals are shooting those FX Impacts, Crowns and Thomas rifles much better as was evidenced in the recent results in the Sportsman and Pro class air guns.

Shot a 239 and a 243. NOTE: The "243" card had some prior sighter holes in various bulls, but the scoring was accurate and there were no "bull" misses on this card.

 

[tommyb]

Shot three N50 cards today with the Annie 1907 .22 LR with Tuner. Wind was way up ( for me anyway ) and was 5-8 mph. If I was patient ( ????) and waited, it would settle down to about 3-4 mph. Strong head wind for all 3 cards. Had one near flag deployed, about 8 yards from my bench.

Shot a 248, 246 and lastly a 244. First two cards were using premium ammo ( RWS 50) and last card used Tenex Match. I had a rough start on the bottom row, but then figured out my holds for the rest of the card.

I had the Weihrauch HW100 .22 in the truck, but too windy for that lil' guy at 50 yards.

 

[Joef]

Nice Tommy, but you really need to get in the habit of using those flags.

Joe

 

[tommyb]

You mean that 2nd flag that I should be putting down by my target Joe?

I guess I have been remiss because I’m not sure how to process the information from both flags. It makes it easier for me to focus on my near flag and make a decision on my hold. The down range flag confuses me, but that’s only due to not knowing what it’s telling me.

I do get your point, just not sure how to assimilate the information with the down range flag with the bench flag.

 

[igolfat8]

Nice shooting Tom. I wonder what yardage you and others are putting their flags on N50?

 

[tommyb]

Nice shooting Tom. I wonder what yardage you and others are putting their flags on N50?

Thanks Tim.

I put my first flag at 8 yards and 2nd flag at 35…..approximately. Have not been using 2nd flag lately, but will start from now on.

 

[tommyb]

Moved out to 100 yards today with Mike’s EBR targets. Wind was 3-5, average on Kestrel was 3.4 mph.

Shot the FX Boss .25 and RAW .22 HP. 2 cards for each gun. Very humbling.

203, 205, 207 and 213. Had two flags out, but I had a tough time adjusting to holds. Several misses, and even with .030 scoring plug it was not good.

Honestly, this is very hard with pellets and those guys that regularly attend RMAC and EBR know what I am talking about. No complaints, I love to try.

I like N50 because it is more in line with my skills.

 

[Centercut]

It’s probably that crappy .25 Boss. . It just takes a while - I've shot 228 with that gun. I’m in the low 220s on average going in to EBR with the .25 Red Wolf HP shooting Mk1 Heavy at 950 fps. Shot a 233 last weekend (no flags) but it was fairly calm. Best to practice in swirly conditions. Learn to shoot a few sighters then directly to a target or two. Rinse and Repeat when wind looks favorable. I never shoot when the wind switches to the opposite direction of the prevailing direction. That’ll get you in trouble in a hurry. Most times you have about an 80/20 split wind direction when shifty. Don’t shoot the 20. Just wait.
PS., if you're just shooting for high score, shooting five 5 shot groups will make you feel better, but won't really prepare you for EBR. To get in good EBR practice, shoot one target, then the next until you've shot all five, then go back and do that again four more times. In my experience, the difference in score is about 4 to 5 points lower when shooting "competition" vice "group" style..

 

[jps2486]

Nice shooting! I find that you need at least 4 wind flags. One close to the bench, one about a third the way out, one 2/3 the way out and one just in front of the target. In some matches I've shot, the middle flags were going in the opposite direction. Figure that one out.

 

[tommyb]

It’s probably that crappy .25 Boss. . It just takes a while - I've shot 228 with that gun. I’m in the low 220s on average going in to EBR with the .25 Red Wolf HP shooting Mk1 Heavy at 950 fps. Shot a 233 last weekend (no flags) but it was fairly calm. Best to practice in swirly conditions. Learn to shoot a few sighters then directly to a target or two. Rinse and Repeat when wind looks favorable. I never shoot when the wind switches to the opposite direction of the prevailing direction. That’ll get you in trouble in a hurry. Most times you have about an 80/20 split wind direction when shifty. Don’t shoot the 20. Just wait.
PS., if you're just shooting for high score, shooting five 5 shot groups will make you feel better, but won't really prepare you for EBR. To get in good EBR practice, shoot one target, then the next until you've shot all five, then go back and do that again four more times. In my experience, the difference in score is about 4 to 5 points lower when shooting "competition" vice "group" style..

Lol - Mike, it’s not the Boss and I know you are just teasing. The RAW wasn’t much better.

I did shoot one shot per bull and rotated, from my EBR virtual challenge days back in 2020 when you created that challenge. For sure, it’s 5-8 points easier if I shoot 5 per bull because I have very little to move / adjust when I can keep my rifle set and there is no movement needed to rotate. I’ve compared both ways, and the one shot per bull is harder for score. But, I like doing that way to simulate the real environment.

I’m pleased with how I have shot the 30 yard challenge cards with the Boss, and have done well ( not great ) with the N50 cards. It likes the Mk2’s, but I need to try that PA liner also, like we discussed. I just need to keep learning the 100 yard stuff.

All of the other tips and techniques you mentioned is /are where the rubber meets the road. Thanks for mentioning.

 

[tommyb]

Nice shooting! I find that you need at least 4 wind flags. One close to the bench, one about a third the way out, one 2/3 the way out and one just in front of the target. In some matches I've shot, the middle flags were going in the opposite direction. Figure that one out.

Thanks Paul. I have 4 flags, but you know something, I have a hard enough time with two flags, but I hear ya. I know people use more flags. Mike also mentioned how to approach the switching directional changes with two or more flags, and I’m going to ‘not shoot’ and wait it out next time out and wait for a favorable wind shift.

 

[thomasair]

Tommy…I have noted essentially zero difference in average over probably at least 100 cards shot each way. It’s probably because I have to load single shot and that’s at least 6-7 seconds between shots. By the time I’m finished loading with my right hand…my left has already moved the gun to the next bull within 1/4” of where I would like to be without even looking looking through the scope. Maybe it could make more difference using the full size EBR cards since there is a much longer way to go between bulls….but there are ways around that even with a 1 piece rest if you put some thought into it.

Since the sighters are at the bottom of the full size card….the only sensible way to shoot a full size card with a rest is in a vertical column manner. Only elevation needs to be fast from sighter to target. There are multiple ways to do that. Some incredibly simple.

Mike

 

[tommyb]

Tommy…I have noted essentially zero difference in average over probably at least 100 cards shot each way. It’s probably because I have to load single shot and that’s at least 6-7 seconds between shots. By the time I’m finished loading with my right hand…my left has already moved the gun to the next bull within 1/4” of where I would like to be without even looking looking through the scope. Maybe it could make more difference using the full size EBR cards since there is a much longer way to go between bulls….but there are ways around that even with a 1 piece rest if you put some thought into it.

Since the sighters are at the bottom of the full size card….the only sensible way to shoot a full size card with a rest is in a vertical column manner. Only elevation needs to be fast from sighter to target. There are multiple ways to do that. Some incredibly simple.

Mike

Interesting...we have different experiences with regard to scoring with the one shot per bull vs. shooting all 5 shots at one bull. But, you explained and I understand it works for you.

When I shoot the 8X11 EBR cards, it is definitely harder for me to shoot one shot, one bull at a time; vs. shooting 5 shot groups at one bull. I actually did a comparison the other day and took out some previously shot cards to compare them using both methods, and when I shot the 5 per bull I was much more accurate score wise. About 5-6 points difference for me.

When the virtual EBR 2020 challenge was held, I'm not sure how most were doing it, but I do it for the challenge and because it closely simulates how they do it in the face to face venue.

 

[thomasair]

Tommy…you might examine your technique further to see what makes it more difficult for you. It really doesn’t make sense. If you have leveled your rest and your target….it should be just a quick turn of the windage knob to get you from one position on a bull to exactly the same position on the next. Doubt that takes much more than 1/2 second.

Mike

 

[igolfat8]

Perhaps the differences lies with the rest(s)? Are you using 1 or 2 piece rest Tom? I suspect it’s two piece? If so, I too have better success (accuracy) shooting 5 shot groups because when I move my 2 piece rest I feel there is more room for error verses having your rifle in a one piece rest.

 

[thomasair]

Tim….I have done it with both 1 and 2 piece. Actually, my two piece is faster due to a more coarse windage pitch. Your rest setup should track positively either way unless you have a real soft or mushy rear bag. I use a rear bag that’s very firm and filled with heavy sand. It’s probably about 15 lbs…maybe more.

Mike

 

[igolfat8]

Mike, I don’t normally use a rear bag with my two piece set up. My front rest is a Randolph or sometimes a bi-pod and my rear rest is either a Randolph (hard plastic pivoting V) or a HoleShot with stationary rear roller. I’ve also used a Protector (hard) bunny ear or a scrunch bag. All of my rear rests have provided me similar results and I struggle with accuracy when transitioning either vertically or horizontally. I don’t use any cheek or shoulder nor any right hand contact but only one finger on the trigger. But if I stay on the same bull and shoot it multiple times I am usually able to put all 5 shots into the same small area. Obviously there is something wrong with my transition technique. I’ve always thought I have some sort of front to rear rest binding going on that hinders my transition shots and I look forward to trying a one piece rest in the near future. I do tend to clamp my fore end down pretty firm so perhaps that’s a place to start?

 

[thomasair]

I have never found clamping the front to be the best for any of my guns. Mine move pretty freely even in bag type fronts. Most of us have been using the ball bearing roller tops for N50. Im also using a ball bearing roller rear. You have to use something to prevent the gun from flying off the rest each shot. I didn’t have the trouble you are describing when using a conventional 2 piece, though.

Mike

 

[igolfat8]

I will have a one piece rest and rollers by the time my HPX arrives in 6-9 months . Thx for all the tips and my apologies for side tracking this thread.