Sub MOA at 200yrd with 34gr heavies on vid.

Some of you may already be aware of my long range work with the .25cal JSB 34gr heavy pellets and had seen some of my early testing last year at 300y. 
I have shot many 1/2 MOA groups at 100y and 200y with this pellet and Im very close to the MOA at 300y with a custom rig. 

Recently I have noticed the increased public interest in shooting longer ranges so I have designed a kit for the Edgun matador that will get the .25cal heavies up to the RPM and speed needed for repeatable accuracy at 200y. There are very few guns on the market that have a fast enough twist rate or are able to give the 34gr pellet the speed it needs to be accurate past 100y but give it a couple of years and this will be the norm.

I sent a prototype kit to Brian at Edgun West so he could test and share his thoughts. He has posted his results on this video and filmed what I am almost certain is the first sub MOA group with a PCP and diabolo skirted pellets on video. Enjoy..

 
Wingman:
I loved the video, the clear and detailed explanation and the gun tuning. Quite impressive the groupings at 100yd and 200yd. Well done. Thanks for the video. +1
However, I am concerned about hunting at 200yd with an airgun. Too risky for the animal/bird/pest and too far away to walk after a shot... I am doing max 50 meters since I want to make sure it is a well placed shot and no further suffering. My 2c. 
What an accomplishment for an Edgun .25! I am thrilled! 
 
Great shooting, although I will agree 100% with the above poster on the distance of 200 yards being beyond reasonable for an air gun. Our diablo pellets just don't have the BC to consistently hit a target out at 200 yards with any conditions other than completely calm / no winds. I cringe at shots taken over 100 yards with air guns personally. Just seeing the videos of people doing the long ranger competition @ 200 yards, you generally see 8-10 or more misses which all would be wounded+running animals that you would never be able to get a follow up shot on. As impressive as these long range shots are we need to be mindful and maybe not encourage young shooters to go out hunting game at these ranges with a pellet gun. I feel this video might as well be an advertisement for the Matador stating "You'll be able to reach game out to 200 or 300 yards with a .25 cal and 34 gr jsb!". I think just showing .5" or better groups at 50 yards would suffice in proving an air guns accuracy.

-Matt
 
Great video. I like the mods and the skillful shooting. I don't agree that showing 200 yard groups somehow condones or encourages anyone to take hunting shots at that distance. And I don't agree that 50 yard groups would show what this Matador and JSB projectile are capable of from 100 or 200 yards. I've seen quit a few airgun that were impressive at 50 yards but could never produce great accuracy at 100 or further.
The purpose of the demonstration was to show the potential of the JSB 33.95 gr at long distance when shot at around 900 fps which most .25 airguns cannot do. The video was clear on that purpose.
 
Improving power, accuracy, and precision at 200 and even 300 yards factors favorably at all usable yardages for airgun hunters. I applaud these men's work and trust to the moral consciences of individual airgun hunters and their unique circumstances to use these capabilities responsibly. Punching paper and powder-filled golf balls at 300 yards sounds like a hell of a lot of fun to me. But to others, killing a livestock-eating coyote might be more important. As for moralizing? What is more moral; shooting a coyote with a pellet gun round that will be stopped by the targeted animal, or blasting a fist sized hole in a coyote with a 308 and have the projectile continue on to God-knows-where? Yet, airguns and 308's can and are being used responsibly by responsible hunters. In the end, it seems to me that all this moralizing really does is encourage those who would take all guns away from all of us.

 
Thanks for the comments guys.
We dont all have to agree with each other but it helps in the venture not to look publically uninformed to have facts when posting comments such as; 

"the distance of 200 yards being beyond reasonable for an air gun",

Is it?...really? If we all had an attitude like that we would still be stuck in the stone ages throwing stones at our dinner then eating it raw because rubbing two sticks together for 30mins seemed unreasonable to have the resulting fire..
The ideology of aspiration for quality and progressive innovation is what eventually leads to technology progression and new industry standards that eventually we all can enjoy.

"just seeing the videos of people doing the long ranger competition @ 200 yards, you generally see 8-10 or more misses which all would be wounded+running animals that you would never be able to get a follow up shot on"

I have been shooting 200+ yards with PCPs for 10+ years.. this is not something new. I am from a background of 1000y+ F class shooting and own many powder burners that are not even zeroed until 500y. Have you seen videos of guys shooting groups under 2" with pellets at 200 yards before? please post links if you have as Im interested to see them. Hitting a golf ball at 200y with currently available production airguns is nothing more than the law of averages.. eventually if you put enough pellets in it direction you will hit it. Doing this 5 out of 5 times however installs a little more faith in your platform.. and yes I have shot several 5 shot groups under 1" at 200y with this setup.
Brians group of 1.69" at 200y in light winds on vid was some great shooting also. 
I have shot hares out past 200y with both .22 and .25cal PCPs and both dropped on the spot. something I know you dont realize is that at 200y the 34gr pellet is still carrying 27ftlbs of energy.. that is about the same as your average .22cal pcp at the muzzle. The B.C is so good on this pellet when shot from the right twist rate at 900fps that it still holds 17.5ftlbs at 300 yards. This combo is more comparable to a .22LR and demands the same respect. 
Putting disclaimers on everything for the uninformed is not in my nature, if you know yourself that you are not comfortable putting critters down past 50 yard then dont do it.
For those that like to push boundaries and their own personal bests then the technology has now been made available for you to do that.

"Our diabolo pellets just don't have the BC to consistently hit a target out at 200 yards with any conditions other than completely calm / no winds"

Again if you dont understand the basics of ballistics you may not want to post statements like that, the internet can be a tough place to gain respect.
It takes a lot more than just a high BC figure to constantly hit a target at 200y in any weather. But to satisfy your consistency apprehension of shooting this set up in the wind I have a quick 10 shots in high gusting winds for you at 230y. You will note I hold roughly the same point of aim to illustrate the variation of impact in extremely gusty conditions. 
You will also note that all these pellets stay 100% stable and show only std wind drift from right to left with the bigger gusts also dropping the pellets about an inch lower.
An experienced shooter would have no problems reading the wind and keep these pellets on target at these ranges in high winds by doping for the various winds and avoiding firing during short gusts.
Please note... 10 shots zero flyers at 230y:


 I think just showing .5" or better groups at 50 yards would suffice in proving an air guns accuracy.

Not so, all my airguns will shoot .5" or better at 50y.. only 2 of them will shoot sub MOA past 200y, but if that is all the proof you need here's a typical 5 round group at 50 yards and 100 yards.
note: the squares on the paper are 1"





Heres 10 shots at 100y



 
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No this is not an ad for the Matador, I based this system on the Matador as it had a valve and reg system that was easily reworked to cope with the extra power these 34gr pellets need to shoot at their best. It also has a faster than std twist which helps with keeping this pellet stable out on those longer ranges.
Even a std L/W barrel won't keep the 34gr stable at 200y. Eds school of thought for the Matador was a long range accurate PCP from the very beginning of its design, how many other brands had a 20 MOA weaver rail built in and had Lothar Walther make them a special fast twist barrel to suit a particular pellet way back in 2011? It has long range roots and is a very suitable platform for this mod. If you search youtube you will find many vids from Ed shooting balloons at 200 and 300y with the R3 when he first built it.
The truth is I could have made a kit like this to suit a few different guns but none as easy as the matador with a few drop in parts to enable anyone to shoot these ranges with confidence. Most other guns will require a barrel change too.

It is not my intention to push one brand over another here.. I am sharing this info with the hope that many manufacturers will step up and make this the industry std in PCP manufacturing for those that want such performance. JSB have responded to requests for bigger better pellets and now PCP manufacturers need to respond with platforms that will shoot them to their potential.
There seems to be a weird mentality here with some people that they bought the best and will defend that idea at all cost. People with this attitude really only disrupt progress and eventually get left behind in others wake anyway. 
 
I have no qualms with diablo pellets being launched out at 200-300 yards at paper/metal. Still makes me cringe knowing someone has and will try to take game out that far unsuccessfully, that is all...slugs are entirely different and do not apply to my above statement... Everyone has their personal morals and beliefs they adhere to...I'll just say remain mindful! I am in no way trying to put the shooter or rifle down as both performed superbly! I am just agreeing with a previous poster and expressing how I feel on diablo pellets being launched @ these ranges at live game, and how this video can and may encourage people to attempt such...and hopefully the one poster and I prevent anyone from attempting it on live game, as I strongly believe 200 yards is a stretch...but if the day has come where we can hit near pellet on pellet every time @ 200 yards then you won't find me complaining..

My rifle shoots the 34's at 890 fps but I highly doubt it would have anywhere near the accuracy of that Matador, definitely an amazing rifle, and an amazing presentation on what those 34 gr jsb's are capable of.

-Matt
 
I agree with Wingman. If there wasn't someone out there pushing the envelope and trying to find a better way to do something we would never have gotten as far as we have. Smooth Twist barrels, high end scopes, 500 cc air bottles, sling shot hammers ... come on people ... that's improvements ... that's progress ... that's the future. These are the people who do all the work to make our lives more enjoyable, but some people want to read a book at night with only a candle. How will we ever know what is possible unless someone with a high hope and a crazy hunch isn't willing do what nobody has done before. Who would have ever thought that you could shoot a missle down with another missle from miles away? The future comes at you pretty fast, if you're not paying attention, you could miss it.
 
The day has come. 

Thanks guys,
Stay tuned for my 300y vid and some long range pesting if that is your interest. 

We are currently also testing .22cal in this platform now too. 

"Will this kit shoot the .22 34gr beast pellets? "

I think the 34gr will be too long for the twist rate and too heavy for the limited air flow of the matador R3 design.. it is also hard to shut the bolt on. It may shoot at about 820fps max which Im not confidently anticipating will group that well at 100-200yds

A better .22 candidate pellet will be the new designed 25.34gr .22 monster at 900+fps. Thats is still 45-50 ftlbs, the equivalent to a .25cal shooting kings at 900 to 940fps
I seems that JSB have dropped the older long waist and short skirted .22 and .177 monster design and have a new redesigned pellet that resembles the shape of the 25cal 34g.. This is great news for us!

The old .22cal 25.4gr monster on the left, redesigned .22cal 25.4gr monster in the middle and .22cal 34gr beast on the right


 
"Gwelo"Have/will you do testing and videos with the "production" hammer parts in your gun that you refer to? Not being familiar with the Edgun, is the regulator and hammer readily adjustable without taking the gun apart?
I have made a second prototype that will be identical to the production CNC product and I have been using it for a few weeks. 
The Matadors HST can be adjusted by removing the stock and the regulator requires fully stripping the gun (a very simple task).





I also made a quick vid while making of this prototype plenum and condensed a couple of hours work into 4 mins for your viewing pleasure :)