raw hm 1000x lrt or dATSTATE WOLVERIENE

I'm very interested to hear responses on this. My understanding is that with RAW you get a 'hand built' gun that has a high level of quality control. With Daystate stock options are prettier, and it probably shoots as well?

The big unknown (sorry to hijack your thread) is whether a Daystate Air Wolf 0.177 with a Heliboard is an option? This would allow the end user to easily fine tune the gun, trying a range weights, each over a spread of velocities. If the AW/Heli was an option, this would be a very interesting setup?

Default options for both RAW and Daystate are LW barrels, but polygon is an option for the RAW but not Daystate.

Why are you interested in FAC 0.177? Is it for FT? For hunting there are much better options in larger calibers.

 Would say if your looking to hunt - can't go wrong with the Daystate .30 cal wolverine - it can toss a 50 grain JSB pellet out at around 950fps ! 
Plenty of knockdown power for most urban critters up to yote's 
ive got a .30 cal RAW bench rest on order - hope to shoot it strictly as a competition setup though 
although others might chime in with their hunting experiences with the RAWs 
cant really say anything about .177 cal in either format though -
shoot a Thomas in the 3 disciplines of USARB matches ( .177 cal) 
And would add that I know of many folks that shoot the Thomas in field target - it's a real trophy winner -
CK

Aren't the RAWS regulated while the daystates are not? The hi lite in .25 is an attractive option.

The RAW HM1000x LRT doesn't come in .177 so that should make your decision much easier.

Yup RAW HM1000X is only .22 and up. I do love my .30 though wouldn't trade it for any other gun

I couldn't imagine attempting field target with a non regulated gun. I'm not exactly a Daystate fan, but I would think even the people that are fans would recommend something other than the Wolverine. A Wolverine, even in .177 would be one of the last guns I would consider.

Check with RAW about options for their HM 1000 in .177. It's my understanding that their web site list only popular options for a specific gun and there are other options available. The HM 1000x isn't available in .177 because the plain HM1000 produces all the FPS that a .177 can accurately handle. 

I have owned both RAW and Daystate. If you get the RAW.....based off my experience......be prepared to send it to a tuner. The gun I got was not tuned properly and I personally drove to RAW headquarters to pick it up in person. It was a .25 HM1000X LRT. I put 3 tins of pellets through it. The fps spread when new was 50fps. Like from one shot to the next. All over the place. I kept shooting it and it got better......but never came close to what all 3 of our daystates did out of the box. That would be a pulsar, wolverine b hilite in .22, and wolverine C in .177.

I have to admit the RAW was built very well.....but no better than the daystate. The magazine on the daystate is definitely better. For the price......I personally feel you get more with the Daystate, unless you need a regulator. Then RAW all the way.

I have been thinking about getting another RAW in .22 despite my first experience. If I do.....I will be prepared to send it to a tuner. Part of me wishes I had kept the .25 LRT and just sent it off for a tune......but it was too loud to truly be backyard friendly. Im sure the .22 and .177 would have been more than quiet enough. Please no bashing my post......this is real first hand world experience here.....that cost me alot of money. Had I been patient I could have got that .25 LRT shooting lights out I know. But Martin told me it was a "one holer" in person when he handed it to me.
Again......putting my neck out here. This is my first hand experience and not heresay.

The shots that were within 10fps at 50 yards were one holing and damn near pellet on pellet. It showed promise and needed a tune.

I have a RAW HM1000 in .22 and one in .25 and both are rock solid as far as velocity goes. I have never heard of a bad experience outside of Mm3006. Something was wrong.

It is my understanding that with the larger pre chamber in the 1000x and the smaller volume drawn by the .177, the pressure differential between the bottle and the pre chamber will not always be enough for precise regulator operation. This is not an issue in the 1000 action.

For field target I think you'd be better off with the lighter standard or thumbhole stock on an already heavy gun. The ergonomics of the grip on the standard or TH might be better for the variety of positions encountered in FT.

IF you're wanting to shoot field target with it, and want the .177, I would go with the RAW TM 1000, not the HM. It has a better trigger and comes standard with the underside accessory rail and adjustable cheek piece. It's made to be a target rifle where as the HM is made to be a hunting rifle. Can't personally compare to Daystate, but I would imagine the RAW being regulated would hold an edge over the Daystate unregulated rifle. 

"Marksman3006"I have owned both RAW and Daystate. If you get the RAW.....based off my experience......be prepared to send it to a tuner. The gun I got was not tuned properly and I personally drove to RAW headquarters to pick it up in person. It was a .25 HM1000X LRT. I put 3 tins of pellets through it. The fps spread when new was 50fps. Like from one shot to the next. All over the place. I kept shooting it and it got better......but never came close to what all 3 of our daystates did out of the box. That would be a pulsar, wolverine b hilite in .22, and wolverine C in .177.

I have to admit the RAW was built very well.....but no better than the daystate. The magazine on the daystate is definitely better. For the price......I personally feel you get more with the Daystate, unless you need a regulator. Then RAW all the way.

I have been thinking about getting another RAW in .22 despite my first experience. If I do.....I will be prepared to send it to a tuner. Part of me wishes I had kept the .25 LRT and just sent it off for a tune......but it was too loud to truly be backyard friendly. Im sure the .22 and .177 would have been more than quiet enough. Please no bashing my post......this is real first hand world experience here.....that cost me alot of money. Had I been patient I could have got that .25 LRT shooting lights out I know. But Martin told me it was a "one holer" in person when he handed it to me.
Again......putting my neck out here. This is my first hand experience and not heresay.

The shots that were within 10fps at 50 yards were one holing and damn near pellet on pellet. It showed promise and needed a tune.

Click to expand...

My experience was the same with both guns that you are speaking of. I had a Wolverine b-hi lite and a RAW HM1000x. I experienced the exact same thing with the RAW. My extreme spread was something like 50fps over the shot strings and I had a hard time with consistent groups. It was also represented to me as a "one hole gun" To your point, if I spent the time with it to shoot it a lot and maybe let the regulator "settle in" or if I had it tuned it would likely have been better. I just didn't feel like I should have to do that with a $2100 gun. Also I didn't feel like I was getting the quality that everyone raves about with RAW and felt a bit disenchanted with the gun. The wolverine had a huge extreme spread but at least it was over a predictable power curve and they don't represent their guns as being regulated so it's hard to fault them for that.

I feel much the same way you do, that speaking ill of my experience with RAW makes me the equivalent of an air gun leper that is just asking for punishment from the airgun community so I don't really ever bring it up. I feel the airgun community is funny that way. There seems to be an unspoken "if you don't have anything nice to say...." type of attitude. I just don't get how that is supposed to help others that are just getting into the sport to be able to make informed decisions. 

Anyway, there it is, this is just my first hand experience. Please be kind. lol

I think you should be able to readily voice your experience with any brand and model. I joined this forum for exactly that...input...personal experiences. We're spending a lot of money for these things. Inherent to forums like AGN should be "consumer report." Being banned for your review only raises eyebrows to something a brand is trying to hide.
You're not gonna take my cash and give me a product less than the value you advertise it for and not hear about it...I don't give a Damn who you are.

Im all for being honest and like to hear about the "bad" experiences to see if they were made right by the manufacturer especially RAW being very hands on and personal. It's too bad sounds like both of you didn't seek out the manufacturer and just got rid of them instead. I just bought my .30 and have only put 50 rounds through but find it very accurate and consistent. Still waiting for my new chrony to show up and wait for snow to melt to get to my 50yd range to start my testing but the 10 shot chrony from WWAG showed less than 6fps spread with multiple duplicates. If I do ever have an issue though I will like send it to AZ as he's an expert on these and also only 5hrs away vs RAW being across country.

I did end up contacting both the Retailer and the Manufacturer.

First, My own due diligence before "complaining" or contacting anyone or sending it back included: Cleaning the barrel. Removing the shroud to check for clipping. See pics, there were burrs in the shroud and I assumed this to be the culprit and was happy to have found an easy fix. After shooting the gun with no shroud the results did not improve. (see picture of target shot at 50 yards with no wind) I tried every different .25 pellet I had at the time. I tried lubing pellets. I tried different "holds" even though it is a PCP and even tried different placement of the sandbags holding the gun. I even tried shooting the gun without the stock on it to see if there was a bad relationship between the two somehow. I basically tried everything I could think of.

After all of that, I first contacted the retailer, Kentucky Salvage, who told me they couldn't help me and I'd have to call Martin at RAW. So then I called Martin who was super nice, polite, seemed genuinely interested in helping and great to deal with all around. Although I had a bad experience with my one RAW gun, I'd absolutely have no hesitation working with Martin if I ever became interested in RAW again.

Short version: After paying for shipping back to RAW, I was told the gun was functioning as designed and needed nothing more than a barrel cleaning, which they did perform. When receiving the gun back, not only was there no improvement in performance, but after shooting a few more mags through it to try to figure out how I could tighten my groups up or let the regulator settle in some more, something had a blow out near the fill port and the gun would no longer hold air. I hope you can understand my frustration at this point in my new $2100 super gun. 

After all of this, and now not being able to shoot the gun at all unless I took it apart myself to fix the leak or send it back in again, my discouragement was overwhelming and I contacted the retailer again. The owner of Kentucky Salvage, in only our second conversation together ever, start literally swearing at me about how I bought a perfectly good gun, beat the crap out of it for my own pleasure, and now wanted to send it back. This is even after I offered to pay him a restocking fee of $100 for his inconvenience. (which in retrospect I'm glad I didn't pay since he had lost all credibility when he started yelling obscenities for no good reason)

Even after this whole fiasco, I bit my tongue and have never until this day, aired my laundry in public.