Poor Energy Transfer

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Tylerdefrese

Tylerdefrese

Member
Oct 22, 2016
30
1
New York, United States
So for the second time now I've placed what should've been a clean headshot on an animal and did not recieve a quick death. My .25 marauder puts out plenty of energy that should be able to drop most pests and small game animals with ease so it's a bit surprising. The first occurrence was on a squirrel. I shot a JSB king from 30 yards shooting at a shallow downward angle. I hit a squirrel just about where I wanted to and it stopped moving instantly; no thrashing or anything. I walked to retrieve it and saw it was still breathing. I quickly fired a second shot into his brain but I was confused by how it didn't die. The shot hit level with the top of the eye and about an 1/8" behind the eye. There seemed to be some blood loss but not a crazy amount. It was just strange that even if the pellet missed the brain, the concussion from the pellet wouldn't take the squirrel out cleanly.

The second instance was yesterday when I shot a dove. The pellet hit the doves eye and the bird dropped but never died. The shot was from 30yds so the pellet certainly had plenty of energy. I walked up and snapped the birds neck. It seems crazy that a .25 pellet hitting with so much energy couldn't cleanly kill an animal with such a "fragile" head. Any insight as to why these things have happened?

Thanks, Tyler
 
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Depends on where you hit it in the brain (brain stem) to shut down involuntary systems (breathing) combined with causing enough blood loss.. It's all about shot placement. .25 is more than enough, the energy transferred just fine but just not in the right place.
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Dome head pellets never had very good energy transfer even in larger caliber's. I am a firm believer of shooting whatever pellet shoots best out of your gun placement over power or gimmick every time, If you are shooting 50 yards or less i'm sure you can find a hunting round that will give you shot accuracy at shorter ranges that will hit the kill zone 90% of the time or greater. The only issue with that would be that if a target popped up say 75 yards and you had a polymag loaded your chance of a kill shoot would greatly be reduced. Good luck with what ever you choice, I'm sticking with Dome pellets at all ranges.
 
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One interesting thing to note from the graphic image is the dead space in both the bird and squirrel basically anything in front or above the eye may result in nothing but a "ice pic shot that might knock the animal out but not kill it.
The perfect brain shot from the above images would be in the same line of the eye centered from behind the eye and back of the skull

Nice pic by the way ballistic thanks
 
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I have had a few issues with ice picking this year. I felt I hit the squirrel cleanly but he wasn't DRT. I have already started preparing for next year. I have changed a lot already, one thing being the pellet choice. Now I'm not shooting a .25, but I would have to assume that the same results could be had. I set up 2 milk jugs full of water; one in front of the other, at about 35 yrds and went to testing. I picked an aim spot on the targets and began shooting. My results were just like other pellet ballistics tests, the JSB went clean through. I found a "hunting pellet" that was accurate enough out of my gun and alot of energy dump, preferably in the first milk jug.
The results were proven when taking a starling @55 yards. The "Hunting pellet" did its job, with great effect; DRT. The puff of feathers was evidence that there was a lot of energy dump when compared to the JSB.
 
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Part of the issue is the pellet.

I use 25.4 grain AirArms and/or 25.39 grain JWS (same pellet). They are really hard! Most of the time when shooting any bird, the pellet goes clear though where ever it hits. I also use 26 grain PolyMags. On pigeons, they usually go clear though, but sometimes not. When they don't, it doesn't make much difference where you hit them, they are down! As you alluded to in the title, it is a matter of expending the pellet's energy, and hopefully, all of it.
 
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Option 3 would be slowing down your gun to shoot 12 - 15 FPE then you will not have an issue with ice picking and even dome pellets will do a better job at transferring energy. Your range will be reduced to about 50 yards but 12 FPE on small game will kill just as well as 50 FPE if you have good shot placement and you could use ANY caliber. The reason most people keep jacking up the FPE is first for larger prey, and second to compensate for shots that are less than perfect. I've been in the sport for about 2 1/2 almost three years and all i kept hearing was .177 for feathers, and .22 for fur and stay away from .25 unless you where killing raccoons and coyotes. Know if you are not shooting with a minimum of .25 cal you must be field target shooting LOL. Back to the point, just another option the FPE for most small game is only 6 FPE differently less than 10.
 
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Found this on GTA

1) Gray squirrel/Fox Squirrel - 4.5fpe 
2) Eastern Cottontail/Swamp Rabbit - 4fpe 
3) Jack Rabbit White, Black, and Jack O' lope - 4.5fpe 
4) Raccoon/ Bandit - 9fpe.. if it's a big one, 10fpe. 
5) Virginia Opossum/ County Rat - 10fpe 
6) Ground Hog/ Wood Chuck - 7-8fpe (depending on size) 
7) Gray Fox - 8.5fpe 
8. Red Fox - 9.5-10fpe 
9) Bobcat - 9fpe 
10) Bullfrog - I have no clue, but 2fpe should do the job. 
11) Snapping Turtle - no clue again but I would think at least the same as bird or squirrel. 
12) Crow - 3.5 fpe head, 6fpe body/vitals 
13) Pigeon - 3 fpe head, 5fpe body/vitals 
14) Sparrow - 2.5fpe, it doesn't matter where you hit them. 
15) Starling -2 fpe
 
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"Ginuwine1969"Found this on GTA

1) Gray squirrel/Fox Squirrel - 4.5fpe 
2) Eastern Cottontail/Swamp Rabbit - 4fpe 
3) Jack Rabbit White, Black, and Jack O' lope - 4.5fpe 
4) Raccoon/ Bandit - 9fpe.. if it's a big one, 10fpe. 
5) Virginia Opossum/ County Rat - 10fpe 
6) Ground Hog/ Wood Chuck - 7-8fpe (depending on size) 
7) Gray Fox - 8.5fpe 
8. Red Fox - 9.5-10fpe 
9) Bobcat - 9fpe 
10) Bullfrog - I have no clue, but 2fpe should do the job. 
11) Snapping Turtle - no clue again but I would think at least the same as bird or squirrel. 
12) Crow - 3.5 fpe head, 6fpe body/vitals 
13) Pigeon - 3 fpe head, 5fpe body/vitals 
14) Sparrow - 2.5fpe, it doesn't matter where you hit them. 
15) Starling -2 fpe
Click to expand...
Good information. I will assume that the pfe stated is for target distance not at the muzzle.
 
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If you’re into powder burners, sooner or later you’ll run across the name Chuck Hawks (http://www.chuckhawks.com). One of his on-line article speaks about killing power (http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm). In his own words, he doesn’t have much faith in killing power formulas. Yet, he publishes the formula ExSDxA=KPS (Energy (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x cross-sectional Area (in square inches) = Killing Power Score) as explained in the article. The one bugaboo is finding the published sectional density of a pellet, but fortunately, it isn’t difficult to calculate.

SD (sectional density) is calculated by dividing the weight in grains by 7000, and dividing the result by the caliber squared. For example, the section density of a .25 caliber, 25 grain pellet would be .057. The two formulas can be shortened a bit, so the the KPS (Killing Power Score) becomes weight in grains, divided by 7000, times the foot pounds of energy, or expressed as (W/7000)*FPE. If you apply the formula to a 25 grain, .25 caliber pellet, with 45 FPE, you get a KPS of .16. To put this into perspective, an average .22LR will have a KPS of .71. And a .223 Remington (60 grains at 3,000 FPS) has a KPS of 6.3.

Like Chuck Hawks, I don’t put much faith in any formula related to “killing power”, because too much data is missing. For example, how hard is the lead? I mentioned above that PolyMags have better killing power, The reason is, the lead is softer, and the plastic tip causes the pellet to expand better than most. And based on experience, certainly better than the round nosed, AirArms 25.4 grain pellets I typically use.

I think we all agree that heavier, faster, and larger (caliber) carries more weight (excuse the pun)! But let us not forget that placement (strike zone) plays a major part too.
 
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As others have stated, you have more than enough energy to kill what you shot. Takes very little to end the life of either critter. There's a difference between a head shot and a brain shot. There is also a difference between a lethal brain shot and (yes) a non-lethal one. On squirrels, don't go above or in front of the orbital socket. The best place to brain shoot a squirrel is the very bottom of the ear canal opening. You will hit the brain stem/spine junction and they will crumble without a twitch. No fancy death dance. Nothing. 

Whether it's a domed pellet, wadcutters, or anything in between, the shot placement is what will determine your success. 

Good luck. 
 
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