MTC Viper Pro- Range Tape

"Wadcutter"In the end, I just ended up printing one of the blank yellow templates from the website... I then opened the blank template in Photoshop. Made several layers with the yardage numbers. Then placed those numbers to the corresponding sharpie marks from the original tape. Printed the final tape and it is right on the money now. I will probably extend the yardage in the future. I saved the file as a PSD with layers to make it easy to move the numbers around in the future if needed.

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Dude, that is a really a good idea!

Using a blank template to put your distance marks on it, and then adding numbers to the tape in Photoshop, or Paint..net! Brilliant!

Thanks,

Kmd

"Wadcutter" In the end, I just ended up printing one of the blank yellow templates from the website. I then stuck it to the extra ring that came with the scope. Picked a calm day and spent several hours shooting at different distances marking the tape as I went. Only went to 100 yards at 5 yard increments. That way I know it is correct. I then opened the blank template in Photoshop. Made several layers with the yardage numbers. Then placed those numbers to the corresponding sharpie marks from the original tape. Printed the final tape and it is right on the money now.

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Thanks. Frustration already has me contemplating doing the same thing. 
MTC is "For shooters, by shooters". So, it surprises me that more shooters are not bringing this issue up. From what I can tell, I'm punching in the numbers correctly. 
I never changed any of the settings on chairgun. So, I would think that if I punch in the same exact numbers, I would get the same result. 

The VRF is confusing to me too. It almost seems as if they decided to use something that no one else is really using just to be different? 

My last experiment, before getting ready for my shift, was to force the chairgun MOA numbers into the tape calculator and print it as if chairgun designed the poi's. Further testing is required before I can say if it did, in fact, work or not. Initial (late night) testing was looking good however.

Tom

"MTC is “For shooters, by shooters”. So, it surprises me that more shooters are not bringing this issue up"

Maybe not too many people own the MTC Viper Pro? I mean, you know how that goes.
100 people bought one.
80 did figure out how to use the tape and are happy.
15 did not figure out how to make a the tape and are not happy.
13 of those are not even aware of AGN,
And of the remaining two, 1 decided to start a thread about it, which is YOU! LOL.

Who knows what the thoughts were behind using VRF?

Hope your "experiment" works out. Keep us posted. 

Kmd

"Tom...if your stuck give Jeff at MTC optics US a call, I think it's trenier outdoors I gav him all my info and he send me a tape via PDF...it was pretty much bang on 

"AR""Tom...if your stuck give Jeff at MTC optics US a call, I think it's trenier outdoors I gav him all my info and he send me a tape via PDF...it was pretty much bang on

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Thanks! I'll give him a call tomorrow. 

Jeff has been very helpful. He made a tape for me using a few different programs. I had a chance to try the final one he made, which he thought would be the most accurate. Fail. My shot at 75 yards hit just past the 60 yard tape mark. 100 yards hit at about 85 yards on the tape. But, the 50 yards zero was dead on... lol!
I marked out 75 yards down my driveway at every 5 yards. I'll tackle the big job of doing this manually later on in the week. 
I also sent him a pretty big list of improvements that could be made to this design. Here's some of them...
- Yardage number lines from top to bottom. Maybe make "0" a fatter line or a different color? Then you can...
- Put the numbers in the center of the tape, unless they start to overlap. 
- The program allows you to 15 calculated poi's. However, it will only allow this to be automatically done using start distance, and yardage increments. That means if I want 25,50,75, and 100. I have to go back and forth, jot down the info for the ranges I'm seeking, and then edit the slots. It would be nice to have a few (5 maybe) slots that allow the user to type in the yardage and it auto generates the MOA and clicks. 
- I was going to say, more poi slots. But, I think the above suggestion would alleviate the need. 
- If possible, lose the VRF entirely. The vast majority of shooters I know have not used this and are confused by it. In my case, it seems like it might be adding to my lack of success. 
- The magnifier is a neat addition tot he scope. But, there's plenty of room on the focus knob to make the numbers larger and no reason, I can think of, to not make them larger. 
- Additionally (re: the above suggestion), add a "-" to the numbers. So, "50" becomes "50-"
- Larger setscrews 
- Make the hex center for the setscrews much deeper. This will allow better engagement with the tiny hex key and minimize risk of stripping.

The lines from top to bottom was a big one, IMO, that should be easy for them to do. If you put the tape on a little high or a little low, you lose the mark. You can still see the numbers but, your guessing as to the precise location of the line. And, when your shooting a .22 pellet @ 100 yards, tiny things like that add up to missed shots.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with some/all of these suggestions? 
Tom

Update:Manually shooting from 10-75 yards (as level as I can get it), the screen shot is what I came up with. I did not use the VRF. I did not force chair gun info into the program in order to alter the poi's either. I counted clicks for each range. Then, I entered the clicks into the MTC program in order to force it to put the numbers where my rifle wanted them. 
I also Recalculated my muzzle velocity, BC, and scope height. 
Scope height = 63.65
MV = 900.25 av
@5 yards = 882.6 av
@65 yards = 741.5 av
I'm sorry to say that I have given up on using the MTC tape calculator. I'd really like to experience it working for me someday and get a more precise location for my poi's. I'm still getting different numbers for my BC's and different values for my poi's in moa when comparing MTC's calculator to Chairgun. I did plug the Chairgun "poi (MoA)" numbers into the MTC chart but, it made no difference on the tape. Only changing the "clicks" values changed the locations.

Tom

Tom,

I know where you are coming from... You bought something and you want it to work as advertised. I get that. I also get that you are the type of person that needs to make it work, and just doesn't give up. And I respect that... But, at the end of the day, the feature that makes the viper pro "special", is the turret system. The ability to "dial in" your distance by using numbers in meters, instead of counting clicks, or using holdover. It's that, and not the app.

At least that is how I look at it. 

That said, forget the app. Just shoot, mark the tape, and you're done. Who cares how the numbers look like!? Get yourself a stencil ruler (or whatever that thing is called). Follow my instruction on how to make your own tape. (I know, the video sucks). Take the turret ring to someone that does ring engravings, and have him dremel your numbers in. 

Forget the app.

thanks, 

Kmd

KMD, 
Right! And, I love the turret feature. Really, that's the whole reason I bought the scope. And... don't get me wrong, I'm not going to give up on the scope because the silly calculator doesn't work. It's starting to coming together now that I've bypassed the system that was designed for it. But, I want to help the manufacturer to fix the issue and I also want potential buyers that are thinking about buying this to know they may not be able to count on the numbers they get form the calcs. If the manufacturer entertains the suggestions I made, and comes out with a "Gen II", I'll be a buyer!
I'd like to use your system for marking the tape but, I don't have a photoshop (that I know of) on my Macbook Pro. I can still do something close with the pages program but, it's very labor intensive and does not put out the effect I'm after. So, I'm just forcing the MTC program to do what I want. I figured out how to extend my range and I'm actually on my way out to shoot the 80-100 yards. Wish me luck!
Tom

"Tominco"KMD, 
Right! And, I love the turret feature. Really, that's the whole reason I bought the scope. And... don't get me wrong, I'm not going to give up on the scope because the silly calculator doesn't work. It's starting to coming together now that I've bypassed the system that was designed for it. But, I want to help the manufacturer to fix the issue and I also want potential buyers that are thinking about buying this to know they may not be able to count on the numbers they get form the calcs. If the manufacturer entertains the suggestions I made, and comes out with a "Gen II", I'll be a buyer!
I'd like to use your system for marking the tape but, I don't have a photoshop (that I know of) on my Macbook Pro. I can still do something close with the pages program but, it's very labor intensive and does not put out the effect I'm after. So, I'm just forcing the MTC program to do what I want. I figured out how to extend my range and I'm actually on my way out to shoot the 80-100 yards. Wish me luck!
Tom

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Tom,

Well said. Not only that, but I also agree 100% Another positive accuracy point from me! : )

thanks,

Kmd

EDIT: I am out of the country for a while. Once I get back, I am going to try something new... I am going to make a plastic ''ring'', or short pipe, that mounts on to the outside of the turret. I then put the ranges on there. Even better, I am going to see if some jeweler can engrave it on the ring!? That way I can change the ''ring'' all the time without having to unscrew those tiny set screws. : )

Kmd

That silly MoA collar was throwing me off too! It's still sitting on the original insert. So, it was throwing off my clicks...
My real world shooting had me mark 80 yards at 28 clicks, and 90 yards at 41 clicks. This put my lines at 7.25 and 10.75 on the tape, respectively. But, if I type in 28 clicks into the program, it puts my line at 7 and 41 clicks ends up at 10.25. Realizing this, I went back and figured out that 28 real world clicks actually needs to be entered as 29 on the program and 41 needs to be entered as 43. 70 is 14 vs 15.
So, if you don't use the single MoA collar that they sent you, you'll have to fiddle with the numbers a bit more. 
Meh... We'll figure it out eventually.  

Travel safe! Thanks for the +!! 
Tom

I got in a car wreck. A motorcyclist almost used my car to kill himself. We're both ok. But, I'm a bit pre-occupied with sorting out getting my car repaired lately. 

That being said... Having the collar off the wheel changes the diameter of the wheel and that's what throws the clicks off. Is that what your saying as well? That's what I have experienced and what the MTC rep told me as well. It would be weird if you were experiencing the opposite. 
That's very kind of you to offer, thank you! If you'd like to make a tape as an experiment, feel free. I spent 1/2 a day working this out manually and now have a wheel for both pellet weights. It gets a little tedious sighting in 38 times (10-100y, every 5y, 2 different pellet weights). And, since I had everything set up already, I ran my FX 400 through the paces as well. So, I sighted in 57 times that day. You might say I'm a bit "over it" for a while. lol
It still irks me that the program doesn't work. For example: I shouldn't have to ask this, - Which BC would you like? Chairgun, or MTC? They give me different results using the same information. 
Pellet = 25.39gr
MTC BC = 0.0419
Chair gun BC = 0.0452
It's math... 1+1=2 and nothing else, ever. So, why the difference? If I'm missing something, I'd sure like to know. 
The tape I posted above is for use without the collar and was created by manually entering the clicks until they matched up with what I marked out at the range. Since the collar was not installed I could not simply count the clicks and enter them. I had to count the MOA markings on the tape and then add or subtract my click entries until the line was where I needed it to be. If you get close to what I've got posted, then you might be on the right track. If your way off... Well, thanks for the effort just the same! lol
Tom

Thanks. It sucks because I really liked the car I was driving. But, he was able to walk away because I was paying attention and preparing for the dumb move even before he made the dumb move. 
.25 cal JSB's

It seems as though the yellow tape is for people like you who have access to photoshop and can manipulate the image. 
I wish I could do it because it looks so much better than the B&W. It also has longer lines and is able to fit more information in a clean manner. 
Tom

I didn't use the calculator part at all. Like you, I gave up when I reached a certain point of frustration. 
I manually altered the click entries until they matched up with the tape I marked at the range. It's the only way I have found that the system works. 
You can enter whatever you want in the distance column. What you enter is what you'll see for numbers, but it'll make no difference in reference to the location of those numbers on the tape.
You can enter whatever you want in the MOA column, it makes no difference at all to the tape. 
The numbers you enter in the Clicks column dictate exactly where each line is generated. 
I appreciate you trying to help out. I plan on making a video about the scope, it's features, my experiences, and how-to in the near future. Maybe after I get the ball rolling with the car repairs. Ugh!
Tom

Please do make that vid. Looking forward to it very much.