I'm looking to purchase a new scope and was looking at the Athlon brand Btr. I wanted to know the difference between recticals? Sorry if it's a dumb question!
Moa vs Mil?
- Thread starter Topcat
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Mil is based on the metric system, moa is based on the imperial system, or as americans call it, "standard system"
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The only real difference is which method of measuring you are most comfortable with.
Mil Radian does however have numerous
advantages when it comes to the Math (everything is divided by a factor of 10...everything). In the world of Optics the Metric system has been used for approx 200 years.
Mil Radian does however have numerous
advantages when it comes to the Math (everything is divided by a factor of 10...everything). In the world of Optics the Metric system has been used for approx 200 years.Upvote 0
Not true.
Mil is based on radians, and MOA is based on degrees. They are two different ways for measuring angles. Neither is Metric or Imperial.
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Sorry Topcat,
BOTH are just ways of dividing a circle into useable 'chunks'.
MoA (Minute of Angle) divides those 360 by 60 using 'imperial' or Inch type divisions (So, based on Imperial system).
Handily, that gives 1" at 100 Yards (approx).
MILRAD (milliradian) applies Pi to measure the circle then divides by 1000.
A MilDot reticle is designed to work easily with the Milliradian system.
BOTH are just ways of dividing a circle into useable 'chunks'.
MoA (Minute of Angle) divides those 360 by 60 using 'imperial' or Inch type divisions (So, based on Imperial system).
Handily, that gives 1" at 100 Yards (approx).
MILRAD (milliradian) applies Pi to measure the circle then divides by 1000.
A MilDot reticle is designed to work easily with the Milliradian system.
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OR !
to further simplify
IF you are:
Over 40 years old and live in the USA - MoA 'is your man'
Under 40 and/or live elsewhere - Mil(liradian) is your guide.
to further simplify
IF you are:
Over 40 years old and live in the USA - MoA 'is your man'
Under 40 and/or live elsewhere - Mil(liradian) is your guide.
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I'm way over 40. I live in the USA. I prefer a Mil reticle, but would have no problem with an MOA reticle.
For Minute-Of-Angle:
A minute is 1/60 of an hour. A MOA is 1/60 of a degree. Not Imperial. Not metric.
An MOA subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards. People often round it off to approximate a 1 inch "Imperial" measurement. That's fine if you can accept a 5% error right off the bat.
For milliradians:
A milliradian subtends exactley 1m in 1000m.
A milliradian subtends exactly 1yd in 1000yds.
...36" in 1000yds.
...3.6"in 100yds.
My typical airgun scope is a 12x mil-dot SFP scope. At 12x power each dot represents 10/12 of a milliradian. That means each dot represents exactly 3" at 100yds, or exactly 1" at 100ft.
I use feet or yards for distance to target. And inches for target sizes. I use 10x mil-dots at 12x. I find this to be the most convenient subtension.
The Athlon FFP scope won't do that, but it does not really matter. In reality, either method can be accurate, but it's good to confirm the exact subtensions that you are using. For critical work, I treat all advertised subtension and magnification specs as "approximations". I measure them on the target range and use those actual measurements in my "dope".
Mil reticles are the most common.
For Minute-Of-Angle:
A minute is 1/60 of an hour. A MOA is 1/60 of a degree. Not Imperial. Not metric.
An MOA subtends 1.047 inches at 100 yards. People often round it off to approximate a 1 inch "Imperial" measurement. That's fine if you can accept a 5% error right off the bat.
For milliradians:
A milliradian subtends exactley 1m in 1000m.
A milliradian subtends exactly 1yd in 1000yds.
...36" in 1000yds.
...3.6"in 100yds.
My typical airgun scope is a 12x mil-dot SFP scope. At 12x power each dot represents 10/12 of a milliradian. That means each dot represents exactly 3" at 100yds, or exactly 1" at 100ft.
I use feet or yards for distance to target. And inches for target sizes. I use 10x mil-dots at 12x. I find this to be the most convenient subtension.
The Athlon FFP scope won't do that, but it does not really matter. In reality, either method can be accurate, but it's good to confirm the exact subtensions that you are using. For critical work, I treat all advertised subtension and magnification specs as "approximations". I measure them on the target range and use those actual measurements in my "dope".
Mil reticles are the most common.
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A degree is a contrived unit. Part of the Imperial system, but accepted in the metric (SI) system. So I guess the MOA system could be considered an Imperial system.
A radian is a natural unit. Used in both the Imperial and SI systems.
A radian is a natural unit. Used in both the Imperial and SI systems.
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G
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The arguments are primarily academic. The cool thing about MILS has been mentioned. It is 1/1000 of the distance to the target... always. Target is at 10 meters a mil on that target is 1 cm. There are 100 cm per meter and so there are 1000 cm in 10 meters... etc... Target is at 1000 inches? A mil on that target is 1 inch. Target is at ten miles? A mil at that target is 1/100 of a mile or 52.8 feet. You can't do that with MoA. We don't do MoA ranging. We could but the math would get interesting fairly quickly.
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It might be one of those things where if you don't already have a preference then it probably doesn't matter.
Either can be used equally well once you learn how to use them.
I could see it being an issue for people who have gotten used to using one or the other, or... for scopes that use moa on the reticle and mil turrets (or vice versa) - this seems to bother people who use both the reticle and the turrets for corrections which is understandable.
Either can be used equally well once you learn how to use them.
I could see it being an issue for people who have gotten used to using one or the other, or... for scopes that use moa on the reticle and mil turrets (or vice versa) - this seems to bother people who use both the reticle and the turrets for corrections which is understandable.
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I like variable zoom scopes. I had a fixed hawke 10x that wasn't bad. I'm just looking for something different, but effective!
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I have not had a FFP scope until about 6 months ago when I got a SWFA 3x15 FFP 1/2 mildot scope with 1/10 mil clicks. I really like it because the dot spacing never changes no matter what power you set and when it comes to zeroing all you need to do is shoot a group and see through the scope exactly how many clicks are required, no math involved. There are some things that keep this from being my favorite scope but the FFP mildot reticule and 1/10 mil adjustments are great.
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Topcat,
I hope you find these links as valuable as I did when researching the differences between MOA & MIL. Granted these cover MIL, but if you search the sites, I would be willing to bet that they also cover MOA:
How To Use Milliradian-Adjustable Scopes | OutdoorHub
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/mil-dot-made-easy/
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/advanced-mil-dot-estimating-distance-using-your-scope/
I hope you find these links as valuable as I did when researching the differences between MOA & MIL. Granted these cover MIL, but if you search the sites, I would be willing to bet that they also cover MOA:
How To Use Milliradian-Adjustable Scopes | OutdoorHub
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/mil-dot-made-easy/
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/advanced-mil-dot-estimating-distance-using-your-scope/
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Welcome to the wonderful world of subtension. It takes some study to learn all it's applications. Best "course" I've ever taken though. Have fun!
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Do you guys use your scope to range a target? MOA, mils, mil rads. Who cares. Know where your dots hit and use a range finder. Maybe I'm missing something. Have fun, Scott
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I've used my reticles for rangefinding, downrange zeroing and target size calcs. before. I love the math, it's fun to play around with, IMO. Even used it with archery sight pins before.
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