How about a introduction to scopes for dummies, Really I am serous

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Willie14228

Willie14228

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Jul 16, 2015
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TX, United States
Okay so I am sure I am not the only one in this class of dummies when it comes to a more advanced understanding of scopes.
As a backwoods hunter, my only real concern with a scope was that I could see the crosshairs and the target and see the target get hit when I put those crosshairs on the target and pulled the trigger.
In my neck of the woods an average deer hunter shoots deer at about 100 yards or less, The truth of the matter is just about any .308 and fair scope will allow this to be done fairly easily without worrying about any real ballistic calculations.
Now I have moved to Air Rifles and so now I am looking at some real brain frying math or some complicated software calculator programs AND when shopping for scopes trying to figure out all these terms and just exactly how they benefit me in Air Gunning.
Brings me back to the old days when you used to go to the store to get shampoo and there would be one shelf to select from..... Now there is a whole darn Isle if not two or three and then when you finally find head and shoulders there is a whole shelf full of different choices of head-n-shoulders.

First Focal, Second Focal, MOA, MIL, Close objective, Duplex, prism, etched reticles, And a whole page full of other 3 and 4 letter acronyms that isn't always consistent with each brand

Now I know there is a post about what scopes are airgun friendly But what should an air gunner look for when they are shopping for a scope, And even more important what should they avoid. I am not talking about brands specific just across the board

I understand that this is an involved question with some personal opinions for answers but I really would appreciate it. Most Youtube Vids discuss the more advanced use of scopes for Fire Arms very little in-depth data is available for air gun related use and understanding Why or How or good selection methods

Thanks Guys N Gals
Willie
 
Willie:
​don't feel bad about all this stuff. I've been into Optics for better than 40 years, and I still have problems with some of the concepts in scopes. Parallax was something only TLR (Twin Lens Reflex) cameras suffered from. I had no idea that scopes could suffer from Parallax until recently. Front objective focus vs side focus, MIL vs MOA, FFP vs SFP, I don't worry about any of that stuff in cameras.

Here's wjhat little I know.

​Bigger lets in more light. 30mm tubes are bigger, so let in more light than 24mm or 1 inch tubes.

​Parallax is when the image focuses in front of or behind the last lens (I think). Result is that when you move your head, the crosshairs might move as well. If perfectly focused on the last element, no parallax movement. Parallax is usually only a problem for bench rest types as the error is small enough that any quarry kill zone is much larger than any parallax error. Take a look at this conversation - http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/parallax-question-dilema/

Mil and MOA are just two different measuring systems. Get turrets and reticles that match. Avoid the most common scopes that have Mil reticles and MOA turrets.

​First focal plane vs second focal plane. Simply refers to the position of the lens element that the reticle is etched into. It does make a difference. the Second Focal plane reticle will always stay the same size when you adjust the magnification. The First Focal Plane reticle always stays proportional to the target, no matter what the magnification. So, if you are at 4X, the reticle is mighty small, and if at 14X, the reticle covers the entire sight picture.

​IR - Illuminated reticle. Personally don't have much experience with these, but at dusk they are supposed to help because the reticle glows. Makes it so you don't lose the reticle against dark backgrounds.

​In the early days of my shooting career, I had 4x32 scopes with parallax set (I think) at 50 yards. Glass was OK, and the fancy side focus, FFP, IR scopes we have today didn't even exist then. 

​Bad glass today is so much better than the scopes 40 years ago. We are really spoiled for choice.

​OK, that's everything I know about scopes. You probably want to watch the videos for better info.
 
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Willie, Saltlake covered all the bases well. Also with 30mm tubes usually there is alot more room for adjustment. This helps because a pellet drops so fast due to lost velocity much different than a powder projectile. I have found many 30mm tubes also offer IR, illuminated reticles.

IR is great, it is more than handy when hunting in low light.

So to answer, I look for Parallax down to 10 yards (most powder stuff may just go to 50 or 25 yards) and a 30mm tube with IR, usually I prefer MOA. I like exposed turrents, zero stop is just a bonus. (lets you turn the turrent back and it literally stops spinning at your zero.) I have all SFP but am looking to try a FFP.

There is something called ED glass or Extra Dispersion (also Low Dispersion, LD, similar). It is glass that is high quality. Such will remove or not even appear to have purple fringing among other benefits. Often, as in the Vortex line, you will see it noted as HD after the model name. Hopefully the manufacture IS using some part or most ED glass in a scope claimed to be and not just saying HD in the namesake. I can tell you honestly an optic that employs ED glass DOES have a clearer/sharper sight picture than a similar or otherwise equal scope that has conventional glass. Natually these scopes are priced higher and for good reason, not just to irritate us.

I think ED glass is worth you checking out if you've never seen it before. Now there are FINE scopes that dont use ED glass; I own a Bushnell Elite, really clear. It's just a feature to note.
 
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Willie, 
my 2 cents, what i know about scopes & airguns:
- you will "need" parallax adjustable, so either Adjustable Objective, Sidefocus, or Rearfocus, because of the shorter distances airguns aare used at.
- bigger objectives means more light at dusk and dawn
- larger diameter tube allows for more adjustability, which is useful especially if you have a bullpup where scope is mounted higher above the barrel than usual. Afaik, larger tube does not allow for more light passing thru, due to how lenses work. However, obviously, high quality of the lenses does allow for more light.
- duplex does not work very well for airguns, you will "need" something like milldot or bdc... or at least it works better for holdover
- depending on your shooting, weight may be an issue. Usually 1 inch tube are less weight than 30 mm, and SFP are lighten than FFP.
- if you are shooting springers, then make sure the scope is "springer-rated".

So my suggestions for brands & types:
- Bushnell legend 5-15x40, elite 6-24x40, both very good glass and springer rated, parallax AO 10y onwards... good prices 2ndhand
- busnell elite 6500 2.5-16x42 as above, and pretty lightweight for the magnification and adjustabiliy
- SWFA supersniper, I prefer the rearfocus, springerrated, cheap, you cannot go wrong with these
- leupold 3-7x33... very lightweight but expensive to get mildot in custom (leupold customshop)
- hawke optics if you want to go really cheap, but may be you need to return it 3 or 4 times until you get a good one. Dont get the expensive sidewinders with all doda's and stuff you dont need, plus they wheigh at ton... o, and these are chinese

my pick: the bushnell 2.5-16x42 and the SWFA
reason: i tend to shift guns, but my scopes i hang on to for long time, so i want them to work on multiple applications... for me , these do.
 
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Yes, if you are using SFP scope, it can: 
for example, if you have zero-ed your scope at 30 yards, and set your scope at 9x, then you might need 2 mildot holdover at 50yards.
Now, if your scope is set at 3x, then your holdover at 50 yards will not be 2 mildot.... instead it will be 0,7 mildot holdover.
Of course, your aim at 30 yards will be the same at 9x as at 3x.

Now, if you have a FFP scope, then holdover will be the same at any magnification.

if you dont wanna think about it, just get a swfa fixed 10x42... simple sometimes just workes best..
 
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I didn't realize the 33 mil tube allowed for more adjustment, Is there a way to know how much adjustment a scope offers from the specs other than tube size

Please anyone is welcome to jump in and ask questions the fact is my learning on these more advanced scopes are so limited and patchy as back ass backwards as this is going so sound.......... I don't even know what I don't know about them.
 
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Willie the amount of adjustment is usually listed in the manufacture's specs. It should say adjustment range or words to that affect . Whether its in inches , or MOA ( practically same measument) at usually 100 yards . The one thing I would say my A.D.D. ass has found true from buying literally dozens and dozens of scopes is that for every well intentioned acronym that comes up there are scopes out there that use them against you...HD is a good example . Scope companies can throw these labels on scopes and what did at one time distinguish between two types just becomes another " hook" to throw on a box . 30mm is same . It was originally designed to give much better light transfer because internal lenses could be larger and had to bend the light less so image was sharper and brighter. Now very few scopes except for the absolute tiptop of the heap use larger lenses because of the cost ....Now 30mm is just another hook , yes it can have benefits like listed above . But now its mainly a way to double retail price while costing only about 10% more to produce . Now my favorite By Far is " Tactical" .. Don't get me wrong its a hell of a lot cooler than saying Exposed Turrets for sure but it doesn't " mean" anything anymore ...I've heard and read many times the best fishing lures aren't designed to catch fish so much as catch fishermen .
 
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My 2 cents

Glass Quality

Look for "MADE IN JAPAN" under the scope...or anywhere on box PRIOR to purchase ...or ask on vendors website about the glass...

FYI, Leupold (as example) > http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601828


https://www.leupold.com/about-us/americas-optics-authority/

"Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years."


PS: Dont confuse "assembled in China" with "Made in China" ; assembled in China - will infer, Japanese glass is exported to China, and labour being cheaper, that product is assembled using Jap glass in China - and there are loads of American brands doing just this...quality glass is a must

Example ? Nikko Stirling Diamond 10-50X60 (2nd FP / Parrallax 10m) - This scope is assembled in China, but bares "Made in Japan"

See what it says here ...faintly under the sticker.

956d6f6bb1c114c47cbcf6650b9b7a00.jpg
 
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PS: Take your time and read the below...It's actually all there

http://www.fekete-moro.hu/bfta-setup-manual/index-en.php


1. Introduction

2. Rifle Preparation

3. Scope Mounting
3.1. Mount Height and Cheek Piece fit
3.2. Centering the Adjustment Turrets
3.3. Installing Mounts
3.4. Focusing the Eyepiece and Crosshairs
3.5. Setting Optical Centre at Optimum Range
3.5.1 Measuring a Sloped Scope Rail
3.5.2 Lateral Misalignments of the Scope
3.6. Plumbing the Crosshairs
3.7. Final Windage Adjustment

4. Establishing the Trajectory
4.1. Choosing Zero Distance
4.2. Systems for Marking P/A Assembly and Elevation
4.3. Zenith of the Trajectory and Use of a Bottoming Turret
4.4. Completing the Remainder of the Trajectory
4.5. POI-Shift

5. Rangefinding by Parallax Correction
5.1. What is Parallax?
5.2. Types of Parallax Adjustment
5.3. Calibrating the P/A for Rangefinding
5.4. Parallax Shift

6. Ballistics Explained
6.1. Why .177?
6.2. Observed Trajectory with Scope Fitted
6.3. Minute-of-Angle (MOA)
6.4. Increasing the scope height

7. Trajectory Compensation by Holdover
7.1. What is Holdover?
7.2. Multi-Aimpoint Reticules
7.3. Zeroing when using Holdover
 
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