Hawke ED vs Viper Pro vs Aztec Emerald

There have been some random focus issues with some of the Hawke ED but Hawke makes it good and the scope returned is perfect.
I have the Emerald but it is yet unmounted since I sold the gun it was for before I got it mounted.

Thurmond

First of all, great lineup of choices! 
What style of shooting will you be doing primarily? 
Hunting or shooting at many different distances, I'd steer you towards the Viper Pro. It very unique and very tedious to set up but, it's great for switching between ranges. 
If you're mostly shooting at known distances or only at a few distances, I'd steer you towards the Hawke or the Aztec. 
That 55 bell is going to let in a lot of light, which will be nice for your eyes. My Dad struggles with attaining a clear sight picture at the higher magnifications due to his eyesight and his limited knowledge of how much more sensitive scopes are when they are maxed out. If you plan on getting something like the 6-24x55, and you plan on using it at the 24x magnification, I'd recommend looking into something with an even higher magnification. But then, don't use it at its max. Use it at about 75%+/- of max zoom. Your picture will remain bright and your eye relief will not be as sensitive which should allow you use it more comfortably. Eg: In the case of the Viper Pro 5-30, I'd say use it at about 25x.
I've been working on a video review of the Viper Pro. There's a lot of material to cover so, it's taking me a long time. Overall, I give it a thumbs up, BUT ONLY if the consumer is willing to learn how to get around its shortfalls.
Tom

I know several Bench Shooters in AZ who use the Hawke.

The problem with older eyes is the pupil no longer opens like it does on young eyes so the exit pupil of the scope (total image size presented to the eye) is critical in matching to the older eye so as not to reduce the light entering the pupil of the eye. People in their 60's need 3 times more light for the same image than a 20 year old due to the pupil no longer opening as much.. 

You can calculate the size of a scope's exit pupil by dividing the effective objective diameter in millimeters by the magnification. For a 4X 32mm hunting scope, divide the 32mm objective size by 4 and you find that the exit pupil is a generous 8mm in diameter. (from a google search since I had forgotten the formula)

The formula shows that as magnification increases that the exit pupil of the scope decreases. At some point the coverage of the retina by the image is reduced and therefore "dimmed" in our perception.

​Given this you can see that a 50mm objective at 24X magnification presents a 2.08mm exit pupil which does not cover much of the retina and is therefore dim compared to a exit pupil of 8mm above which is actually too big for older eyes and therefore there is some light loss since the pupil of the eye is too small to admit the entire image. Ideally the exit pupil of the scope should match the pupil of the shooter (which varies in size according to environmental conditions) for maximum image brightness.

Thurmond

I would like to see that ViperPro video Tom, your thoughts and assesments on magnifications are same as mine. See if your Dad would like a FirstFocalPlane scope. I think something like a 15x power max would be helpful...on my new Ares the exit-pupil is 3.3mm, large for 'at maximum' and the reticle is easy to read the subtensions being FFP. I believe such lower power ranged scopes are more "optimized" than super-zooms anyway. Almost like having a spedometer go to 140mph on a minivan? (It's there, but you'll pay the price! )

My SIII was useless to me at anything past 24x and it was a 10-50x. Thankfully it was SFP native at 24x and looked best left there but my Midas and Ares are ED glass so are crystal clear; I see more details and BRIGHTER with either of their 50mm's than the SIII's 60mm at any power.

-David

"DuncanHynes"
My SIII was useless to me at anything past 24x and it was a 10-50x.
-David

Click to expand...

My kahles 10-50 is crystal clear at 40 and maybe loses a very slight bit of resolution at 50. I can read the numbers on 10 meter airgun targets at 150 meter. Top end optics for a reason, but another price bracket up from the hawke ED and SIII, 

Sightron S3, 10-50X60. You have a choice of reticles. I use the fine cross hair for BR.

So far I am a Hawke 10-50 ED fan.
I have not shot with the others, but my Hawke is very clear, bright, and sharp.

I just got my Hawke 105-50 ED and have a few questions please for those that have one.


1- why is it so hard to get a "full scope" even at 20 power. It just seems so sensitive.

2- does this scope have a very long eye relief compared to others

3- When I am sighted in at 40 yards, I only have about 1/4 more turns of "up" left on my turret. Is that ok? Or should I shim the rear to get more in the middle of adjustment 

sorry 10-50 ED

Image clipping occurs if you are to close to the extreme edge of reticle travel

eye relief is average on the ED, but this is also affected by the reticle being at extremes, one needs to optically Center the reticle.

don’t shim, it’s sloppy, and will stress the scope tube, rather invest in some adjustable scope rings, for a pellet trajectory some guns just need the scope tilt adjusted.

Tominco, as usual, has a great series of videos...

p.s. I have the same scope, and had all the “issues” you have, the scope works if you put some time into a good mounting solution, or if you get fed up you can send it to me! I will pay shipping!!!

Well, i think Hawke just released the scope you are looking for (and me too)
Hawke Frontier with TMX reticle and MIL-MIL configuration, finally! And not as heavy as the ED. You've got to choose between the 2.5-15 or 5-30 but check the minimum parallax before purchase.
It also has (what i consider) some improovments over the other Frontiers, for example exposed turrets and off settings between each number in the ilumination knob

https://us.hawkeoptics.com/18232.html

The Hawke ED is only clear to 32 power. After that there is just not enough light. I have both the 8-32-56 and the 10-50 ED. When both set to 32 power, the ED is much more clear and crisp. I also used adjustable mounts and have gun sighted in at 40 yards with only making less than 10 clicks from true center on scope. This seemed to also help with sight picture. I believe I am going to be happy with this scope.

One concern I do have with the large 6" side focus wheel. I am deathly afraid of bumping the wheel and breaking it off scope. It is so large and generates so much leverage it would not take much to do damage to the scope if bumped.