FX Impact LDC/Moderator Options?

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This may be a stupid question so newbie alert.

Are the custom options discussed include retaining the original inner shroud or replacing it? I understand that moderators such as WH, Hugg etc are a straight fit on the barrel thus eliminating inner shroud but in order to retain the inner shroud a custom compensator (attached to either existing or new inner shroud) would be required that the moderator attaches to.

If retaining inner shroud is the aim, then a custom inner shroud with a custom compensator (with 1/2" 20 UNF) is all that's required to fit some of these off the shelf mods. Of course Neil's LDC may just be a complete custom setup retaining nothing original.

Also there's conflicting news about FX stackable moderator with shroud. As per the IWA 2016 video by one of the SA member, it shows the FX stackable mod with new inner shroud being fitted on the barrel (at FX stand) and stating this will be available soon to purchase. My supplier who also attended IWA 2016 said he asked Frederic and answer was 'no plans yet'. Hmm ..
 
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VerveThis may be a stupid question so newbie alert.

Are the custom options discussed include retaining the original inner shroud or replacing it? I understand that moderators such as WH, Hugg etc are a straight fit on the barrel thus eliminating inner shroud but in order to retain the inner shroud a custom compensator (attached to either existing or new inner shroud) would be required that the moderator attaches to.

If retaining inner shroud is the aim, then a custom inner shroud with a custom compensator (with 1/2" 20 UNF) is all that's required to fit some of these off the shelf mods. Of course Neil's LDC may just be a complete custom setup retaining nothing original.

Also there's conflicting news about FX stackable moderator with shroud. As per the IWA 2016 video by one of the SA member, it shows the FX stackable mod with new inner shroud being fitted on the barrel (at FX stand) and stating this will be available soon to purchase. My supplier who also attended IWA 2016 said he asked Frederic and answer was 'no plans yet'. Hmm ..
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It is NOT a stupid Question and is why I had such a hard time in my communications with Neil. I could not wrap my head around how a screw on moderator would work properly. You will have to forgive me now, I am only 2 years into PCPs, only 4 months into following these online PCP Forums, and very new to the LDCs or Moderators for them. As far as I know, which is not alot outside the few BIG NAMED PCPs that Ted and others run, the Impact is the only PCP with this type of double Telescoping shroud system, definitely the only one I know or have any experience with.

That being said, I had nothing to reference, I too have also received conflicting reports of the original baffle stack being made available for sale here in the US as an acessory, and I also hoped I could somehow get my Bobcat Baffle Stack to work on the Impact, it won't. I even thought about removing my Bobcat shroud and figured it should have the same thread pitch being from the same manufacturer. It is the same thing we are seeing in the Powder Burning world. The same manufacturer will use different sized (insert threading, DIMENSIONS, thread pitch, etc..) which basically forces you to buy THEIR aftermarket accessories. Is it a conscience decision at the begining of the design process? Why would FX NOT put any baffles in the front of the outer shroud or thread it in the same pitch as the Bobcat or Wildcat Baffle stacks? I contacted AOA and FX, I received no information or knoweledge of an accessory baffle stack and shroud combination for the Impact.

I am planning to NOT retain any of the original shroud system on the Impact. I just cannot see how it would be beneficial to me. If Neil decides differently, I will trust what he says. FX CS Support Rep Johan has not responded to my request yet for the thread pitch used on all 4 ends of the 2 shroud tubes. For anyone asking I used a heat gun to get the thread locker used to release, propane torch would also work, I am no expert on PCPs, so please, tread lightly or discuss this with one of the PCP Modders that are on here.

I will be sending my entire FX IMPACT to Neil so that he can build the best custom LDC/Shroud combination possible. He will also then have the Dimensions of the Impact for future builds for others. It is more important to me to have 1 Sweet, Accurate, Quite, Compact, Light, PCP Setup then having many PCPs for different uses as I am not a collector, Yet...

I typed this fast I hope it doesn't sound rambling. Feel free to correct me if anything is inaccurate. This is the type of thread I was looking for on the Impact. Also, if you plan to disassemble your shroud system on the Impact be sure to watch Earnest's video on how the outer shroud is removed and the O-Rings that you will come accross. Those 1mm CS
O-Rings are damaged or rolled out of their respective slots very easily.
 
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I agree with what you have said, it would appear that making the threads in different sizes must have been a conscious decision to make sure customers can not use the stack able baffles they use on their other model air guns. It is a shame but this would appear to be a marketing strategy to bring in more sales. It makes absolutely no sense to me that a maker would make multiple models with exactly the same size shroud and use different threads on them, it would make more sense to make them all with exactly the same threads so that they had a single standard and parts were interchangeable. As a maker all I can say is that I would have made them all one size, it would make production easier and would make replacing parts a lot easier, Neil.
 
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It seems there are 3 options for those wanting to get rid of this dual shroud system to quiten down more.

1. Remove both shrouds Inc compensator and bolt on an off the shelf mod (changes the look of rifle dramatically)
2. A custom Neil LDC with/without the 'inner' shroud
3. Optional FX stackable mod with inner shroud

Hopefully what you are planning will lead to option 2 being available to Impact owners, irrespective of different threads used on stock shrouds.
 
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NeilClagueI agree with what you have said, it would appear that making the threads in different sizes must have been a conscious decision to make sure customer and can not use the stack able baffles they use on their other model air guns. It is a shame but this would appear to be a marketing strategy to bring in more sales. It makes absolutely no sense to me that a maker would make multiple models with exactly the same size shroud and use different threads on them, it would make more sense to make them all with exactly the same threads so that they had a single standard and parts were interchangeable. As a maker all I can say is that I would have made them all one size, it would make production easier and would make replacing parts a lot easier, Neil.
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Yeah, I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be however, as I stated, we are seeing alot of this in the Powder Burning world. I have and have had direct access to insiders that confirmed our suspicions in the Powder Gun world. It is just not a coincidence that they are different.
 
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After identifying some issues with the stock compensator and baffle system on the 22 barrel, the inevitable decision is to get rid of the telescopic shroud on the 22 barrel. Will decide on what to do with 25 barrel later.

Spoken with my local engineering shop and going to replicate something like the 'accessory' FX shroud - made out of either plain woven CF or aluminium 25mm outer dia/23mm inner dia pipe with a custom compensator. In the meantime I'm also going to source the hugget mod for my WC as well so that the appropriate fitting on custom shroud or compensator for it could be made. Replicating FX stackables option being considered as well.
 
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I tried posting three images .......could only get it to show the links...not the pictures themselves.

But anyways, I did my best to get specs on my FX Impact's endcap thread sizes.

I couldn't figure out how to get an accurate pitch on the threads, so I just traced it onto paper and put it next to a millimeter tape measure. It looks like 4 threads for every 6 millimeters. 


I also measured the external diameter of the endcap... with 2 different calipers...it looks to be 26.4 millimeter outer diameter.


 
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Getting a thread pitch is very simple but you need a thread pitch gauge to do it, it is juts like taking valve clearances, you need a feeler gauge, for pitch you need a pitch gauge. For some reason it looks like they used a 1.5 pitch on yours which is coarser than the ones I have made? Now it looks like you have added a 3rd size to the end caps on the Impact, so far it looks like they have made then with 27mm x 1.25, 27mm x 1.5 and 26mm x undetermined pitch? Why different pitches on the same make and model I have no idea why any maker would do that? Neil.
 
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"NeilClague"Getting a thread pitch is very simple but you need a thread pitch gauge to do it, it is juts like taking valve clearances, you need a feeler gauge, for pitch you need a pitch gauge. For some reason it looks like they used a 1.5 pitch on yours which is coarser than the ones I have made? Now it looks like you have added a 3rd size to the end caps on the Impact, so far it looks like they have made then with 27mm x 1.25, 27mm x 1.5 and 26mm x undetermined pitch? Why different pitches on the same make and model I have no idea why any maker would do that? Neil.
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I should have asked you how to do it....went to Lowes and bought me a set of Standard and Metric pitch gauges.

And sure enough, my end cap has a 1.5 pitch thread as you surmised.
 
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Been doing some measuring for the custom shroud and suppressor. So far I have compared the setup between Wildcat (WC) and Impact (IM).

These are approximate figures, could be a few mm up/down. Outer and Inner shrouds on WC is the same, however when I say Outer it is measured from compensator to end of shroud, and inner is from barrel attachment to compensator.

Total Shroud Length (inner and outer fully extended for IM)
WC22: 345mm
IM22: 400mm
WC25: 470mm
IM25: 480mm

Inner Shroud Length (for WC this is length of shroud from barrel attachment to compensator)
WC22: 245mm (26% more than IM)
IM22: 195mm
WC25: 370mm (16% more than IM)
IM25: 320mm

Outer Shroud Outer/Inner Diameter
WC22 & WC25: 28mm / 26mm
IM22 & IM25: 28mm / 26mm

Inner Shroud Outer/Inner Diameter
WC22 & WC25: 28mm / 26mm
IM22 and IM25: 25mm / 23mm


Inner Shroud Volume (excluding the barrel):
WC22: 130 cubic cm (60% more than IM22)
IM22: 81 cubic cm
WC25: 196 cubic cm (47% more than IM25)
IM25: 133 cubic cm

Difference between WC22 and IM22 barrels+shrouds is 5mm. WC22 640mm, IM22 645mm (shroud retracted)

Design of the compensators differ between WC and IM as well, very much so.

If looking at a conventional moderator, first section is usually the longest (as is the case with Hugget/HW mods) and suppresses sound the most, and inner shroud on WC/IM would do just that too as a lot of the air would be dumped/trapped in this section.

What I find interesting is the difference in the inner shroud volume and perhaps this is the reason the outer shrouds on both WC22 & WC25 are just 100mm long compared to 205mm on IM22 and 160mm on IM25. Much longer outer shrouds on the Impacts, as a higher volume of outer shrouds would be required to compensate for the lower volume of inner shrouds. 60% more volume on WC22 inner shroud is a significant difference, and this is because of 50mm shorter lnegth and 2mm smaller inner dia of the inner shroud. This begs for DB measurement on both same cal rifles. Personally (& to my and my kids & especially wife's ears), my WC22 is far quieter than my IM22.

Next step is to have a few parts machined for the IM22. Valve adjustment knob on the IM comes in the way of fitting a 28mm inner shroud all the way back but this is not the main issue. To increase the volume of the inner shroud, the overall length of the compensator will need to be increased by about 30mm (from 45.5mm to 75.5mm). Design of that longer compensator is a big question right now. As for the outer shroud, still considering if a custom moderator (similar to that unknown release FX accessory shroud) is to go for or just get a Wildcat Hugget Belita in .25 that could be used for both guns in .22 and .25.

If replicating the inner and outer shroud volumes of WC22/25 shrouds, it will add appx 30mm to the IM22/25 barrel lengths with no extendable shrouds in sight. I can live with that extra length. Even with a moderator attached, the length will not be longer than fully extended shrouds. And there's enough margin in the IM's carry case for the extra 3cm.

Thoughts? Something to consider?
 
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"Verve"Been doing some measuring for the custom shroud and suppressor. So far I have compared the setup between Wildcat (WC) and Impact (IM).
...
Valve adjustment knob on the IM comes in the way of fitting a 28mm inner shroud all the way back
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Great post. 

Interesting about the valve knob, how much smaller would the knob need to be? Would a 28mm shroud fit into one of the groves of the knob, preventing it from being adjusted with the shroud on but could probably live with that?
EDIT: Disregard, found some photos showing the overlap is far greater than the groves on the knob.

If you have a 25cal wildcat, have you tried taking the shroud and associated parts off and fitting them to the Impact? It should all fit if the barrels are both 14mm OD.

^Above would only work with a Non-US wildcat, the shroud compensators are different. Which I assume your's is given the longer shroud measurements.
 
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I have the Impact in 22 & 25, and the Wildcat in 22. I could swap the WC22 shroud and compensator over to the IM22 barrel but it will still need some fabrication work to increase the volume of the inner shroud.

Unfortunately I don't have the equipment or the skills to fabricate stuff and it works out cheaper to get the shop to do everything in one go instead of doing bits and pcs.
 
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"Verve"I could swap the WC22 shroud and compensator over to the IM22 barrel but it will still need some fabrication work to increase the volume of the inner shroud.

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Can't you just have the shroud stop before the valve knob? I re-watched Ted's video and noticed that he's shroud sit's forward 3cm or so. (Hardly noticeable)

I'd be interested to hear whether the small increase in ID + Less parts taking up volume + a cone shaped end cap makes any difference.

Unless there is something else that needs to be modded that I'm missing?

If you have the same wildcat shroud setup as the below link you should be able to in theory slide it back and forth along the barrel and find a sweet spot.
http://www.fxairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/wild-exploded-drawing-Standard.pdf

Parts D8-14 from WC to IM
 
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aurora
Can't you just have the shroud stop before the valve knob?
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Yes that'll be the easiest way but that's a 40mm reduction in length of the inner shroud of 28mm OD in order to clear the valve knob.

That's translates as follows in Inner shroud volume (excluding barrel):

IM22: 81 cubic cm
IM22 with WC22 shroud only: 82 cubic cm

I think for such an insignificant difference this would be a pointless exercise.

Aim is to get to a 45%-50% increase in volume and that should be achievable with a 30mm longer compensator and 40mm of end pipe to be 25mm OD to clear the valve knob.
 
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