What is ethical?

"fuznut"glengiles I can kill a deer with a 22 far easier, than a pig with a pellet gun.
Shooting deer with a 22 is illegal. Because law makers realize just because you can
is not justification for doing so. If ( the air gun community) can not, or will not sound
off against view points as flawed as yours, then sweeping far more restrictive laws are
soon to follow. And I must admit they are probably needed.
Thats not correct. I can legally shoot a dear with a .22. Not all states have caliber restrictions. 

Whats ethical? A hunter who uses a legal means of harvesting an animal and has prepared for the hunt to minimize the chance of a wounded and lost animal. Thats ethical. If you cant congratulate a hunter on a clean harvest because you dont agree with the legal means for which he/she harvested it then just keep your mouth shut and keep walking. I wouldnt parade the animal around town after the hunt but if someone feels the need to and its legal then I guess I keep my mouth shut and keep walking. 
 
"fuznut"Bullfrog Air guns of proper caliber and fps yes, when you lump in a 22 springer NO.
You can use a pellet gun on pigs because there are no restrictions on them you can shoot them at night from a helicopter
with a machine gun. you can blow them up with dynamite all kinds of things that you can not do to any game animal
like deer.
I work for and with many ranches where for a fee you can hunt free range feral pigs. call and tell them you would
like to book a hunt with a pellet gun. HA In my youth I ran a trap line in Alaska I once killed a grizzly caught in a snare with
a 22 pistol. It was suffering horribly and likely would have continued to at least a week more before I could have returned.
In that instance the ethical thing was done. I often see deer caught in fences, sometimes I can cut the wire and they are no worse for wear.
Often that is not the case, at those times killing it by any means gun knife rock is the ethical, moral, and the humane course of action.
though technically illegal. just because some thing is legal does not mean its ethical. On the flip side often the ethical thing to do is unlawful
I have never had a warden object. I know of none who would endorse killing pigs with a pellet gun even though it would
be perfectly legal. With the exception of big bore or arrow .it which case they would harbor no objections..

Are you only talking about springers, or are you talking about .22 and .25 PCPs as well? Because if you're lumping PCPs into that mix, the evidence is already against you. Its beyond all reasonable dispute that .22 and .25 PCPs at 40fpe and beyond are deadly on hogs with brain shots out to 50 yards. 
 
BTW, in Florida rimfires are the choice of discerning hog exterminators, game warden and otherwise. I learned to kill hogs with rimfires from my grandpa, a 40 year veteran of the State wildlife agency. 

Again that's why ethics can be hot air. Hunting traditions can vary wildly from State to State and some of those traditions can be deeply rooted in culture instead of just arbitrary regulations. One man's poacher is another man's normal hunter when you cross state or cultural lines and when looking at a bizarely different set of hunting ethos, it may be you who has the skewed moral compass instead of them.
 
"Michael"I agree with some of your responses. "To each his own", some would say. I suppose I was just venting my frustration because all of my hunting is limited to private land with permission from the land owner. And therein lies the double edged sword that accompanies airgun hunting. The more capable, powerful, & popular airgun hunting becomes; the more susceptible it will be to regulations, laws & scrutiny.


Re capable and powerful that's what I have been saying. Right now is the golden time of powerful airguns and minimal attention from the Govt. types. Enjoy while it lasts. I fear soon we will be doing the FAC thing like the Brits.
 
Ethical is a personal thing. I like an instant kill, head shots or T shots, just me.

I'll comment on the Hog hunters mentioned tho, they have crap dogs!
In Fla. a good hog dog would go find a 500+lb Razor Back Hog run next to it then at the right moment bite and snap it's neck clean, 1 second flat and the Hog was dead. Seemed a fast clean death.

I've killed a fair number of the same large razor back hogs with a .22 ( legal at least them in Fla.) every single one a one shot FAST kill. We just walked through the saw palmetto bushes with a single shot RF and as soon as a Hog started chasing you you would RUN and climb a tree then wait for the perfect head shot from above. We also killed a lot of farm raised hogs in a chute/pen using a 5mm Benjamin, everyone a clean instant kill. I had one friend who just because he wanted to used a machete , got a razor back ( 6" Tusks) to chase him into a mud bog and they ( he and the Hog ) went at it, the Hog lost and my friend got 50 or so stiches, seemed sort of a fair fight.

Got turned off to dog hunting ( I do still think retrievers & such a cool) in WI where they would hunt Bear with dogs using both radar and shock collars, so the dogs would scout until they treed a Bear , then IF it was close enough to the road they'd shoot it in a tree and if to far away ( wimp ) they would just shock the heck out of the lead dog until it would leave the treed bear. Just didn't sit well with me. I owned the only private property in a 40,000 acre forest and allowed NO bear hunting ( or parking for them )
time after time I said "NO" then one day another "I've hunted here every year ......" persona asked to park and naturally I said NO. He asked why and I explained then he told me he was a veteran - but I'd heard it all before- then he showed me the break action 5 shot .38 pistol he used, seems he would find a good trail, hide behind a log the bear would walk over then grab it in a head lock and empty the 5 shot .38 in it's side. Ethical, I don't know but it seemed a fair enough fight so I let him "Hunt". 

Now in HI, IF you want to read the law a certain way some believe it legal to hunt with a flame thrower, full auto BMG, other. Naturally only on private land. Seems odd to me but I'm sure some folks take full advantage of poor verbiage.

Now hogs can really do some damage ( crops ) and do need to be controlled so ................... .

I think a hunter disturbing ( knowingly ) another hunter is unethical! 


John

 
Gentlemen These post are coming from a taxidermy shop, there is a constant parade of people with extensive outdoor experience
streaming through viewing your responses. I must admit we have grown quite fond of some of you. But SPYSIR you have achieved
something akin to a cult following. Please consider writing a book compiling your experiences. It is certain to be a best seller.
,
 
As a Forester and life long hunter I have spent more time in the woods and around wildlife than most folks and feel qualified to comment. A 150 pound Timber Wolf, of which none exist in FL, possibly could kill a 500 pound hog with a single protracted neck bite but in my 50+ years I have yet to see a dog that can accomplish that. Hogs will charge a threat but in my experience 90+% of the time they run when threatened. And, my Granny could kill a 1200 pound hog with a knitting needle if her crew served weapon were to fail. Oh, and Hitlery just might win the election.
 
There has been a huge change in humanity over the last century or so, that can no longer be ignored in our ethics.

The shear mass and spread of humanity and its farmed animals on this planet now dwarfs the wildlife and is marginalizing wildlife to the peripheries.

This XKCD cartoon illustrates this nicely.

Take a couple of minutes to absorb this;

https://xkcd.com/1338/

There are so many of us, with so much power, we must learn to tread lightly, or our wild planet will be gone.
 
Here's my 2 cents worth. Here in New Zealand pigs were introduced by Cpt Cook long ago. They have done well and today hunting is done with rifle, dogs and knife, and bow. They will never eradicate wild pigs, deer, rabbits, opossums, nor goats, stoats, weasels and ferrets. But back to the pigs, when you see the amount of damage pig rooting does to pasture, and also the native bird life [ground nesting] you then see the need. Yes we have the anti hunting anti gun brigade here too, but, for the most, part people have no qualms at all about the ethics of hunting in general.
I do see your point about parading for the world to see, it's not necessarily the best way to dress up a Toyota. Also your being frustrated having your hunt interrupted by dogs. 
Reminds my of a few years ago when the wild venison exporters were causing frustration to hunters, who on slogging to almost within shooting range, in the alps, only to have a chopper come over the ridge and take out the mob of deer in front of them. #@%&^%*!
Every opening day for ducks there are letters to the editor asking the ethics question. Fortunately to little avail. Without the duck cull the ducks suffer from over populating habitat.
​As for unethical, I feel the riding a four wheeler to a hide where they sit watching cleared, baited lanes for deer or pigs to appear and shoot them. Then put the videos on hunting programs is even worse than the parading of kill through town.
​There, I've had my say.
 
"Simshaz"Whatever we see as sport, we are all open to criticism, in the UK they banned hunting Fox with Horse and Hounds, some consider that to be the British sport.
There are forms of "sport" that are close and somewhat over the edge ... I don't like the idea of animals being trained to tear each other apart and if we are to kill, then I believe we owe as least suffering as possible to the quarry as is humanly possible .
not comfortable taking a shot, then don't take it ... Go practice more
I was living in the UK when they banned fox hunting. It seemed like most of the rhetoric was focused on how they made the animals suffer for no reason I.e. they were not killed for food and fox numbers had diminished to the point where they were not a pest anymore. I had no feelings about the issue at all at the time. I think I still don't. As an FYI, American Pit Bulls are also banned in England. Every one of them was killed to stop them eating humans. 

The truth is that those pigs probably would have died by ripped apart by another animal even if it wasn't for those hunters. That is the destiny of most non-apex predators and prey in the wild. Not many die of old age. 

If I was an animal, I think I would prefer that death over being farmed for food. Nobody is crueler to animals than our meat farmers. They are kept in cages without enough room to stand for their entire miserable life. A farmed pig is lucky to die from a bolt through the head but many survive to experience having their skin and fur boiled off in the next room before they die. They get castrated without any anesthesia too (ouch!). 

I would never hunt with dogs myself but we already have more laws than we can police effectively. I think educating people is a better tool than threats of fines or jail.