T06's floopy

[josh3rd]

John in PA tuned my 54 Air King to accurate and shooting perfection. And the trigger pull is a nice pull weight of 12oz. I do have a question though. 

Unlike my Prosport, once when I pull through the 1st stage and decide to not take the shot, my trigger just flops around where as my Prosport goes right back to its original starting position. 

Why is that?

Can it be made to do as the Prosport does like returning back to the starting position?

Lastly, if it can be fixed/addresses without any compromises to its pull weight or anything. Because me and adjusting triggers don't mix lol.

 

[seven08]

Waiting for an answer from the experts, too. My TO6 on a D34 has good spring feel in the first stage when not cocked. When cocked the first stage trigger feel is much weaker and feels weaker when returning if not fired. Was not like this when new. I have been unable to correct this by adjusting the screws. My TO5 has been consistent since new.

 

[outdoorman]

Your trigger lever spring tension is too light and/or a problem with lack of lubrication at the trigger lever pivot point, at the trigger lever where it makes contact with the adjustment screws and at the trigger lever to sear contact area. During cocking, the trigger lever is rotated slightly and then should return to it's original position after cocking. Your lever is not returning to that point due to one or more of the reasons I suggest so the trigger is just flopping between normal position and second stage contact point. In other words, you've lost your normal first stage tension because the trigger lever is already rotated nearly or fully to the second stage contact and won't return. First stage tension should always be adjusted with the trigger unit set, as in cocked. The reason being is because when set, there is tension on the trigger lever from the sear, when not set there is no tension. I would first suggest taking the trigger, trigger lever and sear out to polish and lube the contact points and lube the pivot points of each as well. If this doesn't work, you need to increase the tension from the trigger lever spring. Perhaps your tuner put in too light a spring. See my video on how to disassemble this trigger unit.

BTW, this is a potential serious situation. The trigger lever is not fully engaged with the sear and the simple act of closing the barrel can cause the gun to fire. I have seen this happen.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvxjtXnEUgQ



Also see my other video on how this trigger works. At time 1:00 you can see the trigger lever rotation during cocking that I'm talking about. The spring should return the lever to it's original position unless the spring is too light or there's too much friction most likely at the sear to lever contact area.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u0I4eU_b4s

 

[seven08]

Thanks, outdoorman. Adjusting the trigger lever tension screw (#3 in the diagram)....while cocked....made all the difference. I made 1/2 turn CW increments while firing into a trap in the basement just now. It took four full turns to get it like it came from the box. Do you think that it backed out from firing vibration? I could feel a fine cut ratcheting while turning. I assume this may be a anti rotation locking feature. BTW, great videos on the TO6 trigger. Mine will be taken apart for a thorough cleaning and lube at next tear down.

 

 

[josh3rd]

Your trigger lever spring tension is too light and/or a problem with lack of lubrication at the trigger lever pivot point, at the trigger lever where it makes contact with the adjustment screws and at the trigger lever to sear contact area. During cocking, the trigger lever is rotated slightly and then should return to it's original position after cocking. Your lever is not returning to that point due to one or more of the reasons I suggest so the trigger is just flopping between normal position and second stage contact point. In other words, you've lost your normal first stage tension because the trigger lever is already rotated nearly or fully to the second stage contact and won't return. First stage tension should always be adjusted with the trigger unit set, as in cocked. The reason being is because when set, there is tension on the trigger lever from the sear, when not set there is no tension. I would first suggest taking the trigger, trigger lever and sear out to polish and lube the contact points and lube the pivot points of each as well. If this doesn't work, you need to increase the tension from the trigger lever spring. Perhaps your tuner put in too light a spring. See my video on how to disassemble this trigger unit.

BTW, this is a potential serious situation. The trigger lever is not fully engaged with the sear and the simple act of closing the barrel can cause the gun to fire. I have seen this happen.









https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvxjtXnEUgQ





Also see my other video on how this trigger works. At time 1:00 you can see the trigger lever rotation during cocking that I'm talking about. The spring should return the lever to it's original position unless the spring is too light or there's too much friction most likely at the sear to lever contact area.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u0I4eU_b4s

Outdoorsman, 

I hope I explained myself right or I hope I'm understanding you correctly but I have tension in the 1st stage when cocked. Its when I take up some of the 1st stage and decide not to shoot that my trigger doesn't return back to its original self of when 1st cocked. The trigger and it's components were cleaned polished and lubed my the tuner so I believe that is not the issue. So what should or can I do without taking the rifle apart?

 

[outdoorman]

Yes, I understand exactly what you are saying. Maybe your tuner guy put in too light of a trigger lever spring or cut the one you had. The only thing you can do without taking the trigger apart is to adjust that tension spring. You know you can set the trigger manually so you don't have to cock the gun repeatedly while testing? I just made this little video showing how to do that.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjDJ2JNHAkc

 

[seven08]

josh3rd.....you have nothing to lose by trying to adjust the trigger tension screw. It worked for me with a similar but less severe problem than yours. Or, send it back for proper adjustment to PA.

outdoorman, I made a quickie tool for cocking the trigger rather than prying with a screwdriver. I had a .160 dia. brass rod and notched it with a radius for a positive grip on the cocking piece. Bevel the back for entry clearance. It uses the front guard hole for pivoting. Sacrificed a tool handle for comfort gripping. Works perfect.

NOTE: During my 30-50 test cycles with the new tool, I watched that trigger tension screw BACK OUT a full half turn. Not good. WHY? No wonder the adjustment was out of spec over time. Wonder how it could be stopped from vibration turning? Possibly a small drop of Locktite blue on the threads would work. I will do that at next tear down.

 

[josh3rd]

Ok I screwed the tension screw in 2.5 turns and it brought a lil life back to the trigger but nothing like outdoorsman's trigger. I wish I was comfortable adjusting the stages of the T06. Which screw is for what and what does it do?

 

[seven08]

I am with outdoorman as why you have a weak trigger in the 1st stage. Continue turning that #3 screw clockwise half a turn at a time and feel for changes. Cock that trigger like in his last supplied video each time before turning the screw. Pull through to trigger snap each time. I would have no hesitation going another 2-3 full turns if needed. I bet you will get it back to normal. Per the above diagram see what the two front screws do. Don't mess with them as your tuner probably has them set perfect. Go for it.

 

[outdoorman]

Outdoorman, I made a quickie tool for cocking the trigger rather than prying with a screwdriver. 

Nice idea on that tool. Yes, a little blue loctite should do the trick I would think.

 

[outdoorman]

Which screw is for what and what does it do?

The forward screw is 1st stage travel adjustment. That screw is normally all the way in for least travel. Any adjustment on it will interact with the second stage, middle screw, adjustment. Just leave it as is, should be all the way in. Second stage adjustment screw will adjust creep on the second stage which I have adjusted for a nice clean break with virtually no creep. If you don't like the long 1st stage travel, you need to install a grub screw to reduce it as I did on this unit in the photo. Set it and loctite it. If you reduce 1st stage travel too much, the safety will no longer work. The safety indicator will still move all the way back indicating safe but the gun will still fire in that position.

 

[seven08]

There is a YouTube TO6 video showing a guy advising how to bend that fragile zinc tab to reduce first stage travel. PLIERS!!! Really dumb idea. Your screw is the best path for this.

 

[josh3rd]

How can you still and tap at that angle brother? Secondly I screwed the 3rd screw in 3x's and set the trigger to engage as you did in the video and my trigger was barely able to fire. It damn near touched the trigger guard behind it. WTF!!! I can't win lol. I screwed the #3 screw ccw one complete revolution to get me where I was earlier.

 

[josh3rd]

Oh yeah before I forget, I'm supposed to turn the #3 screw after I cock the trigger and not before correct? If so, I believe that I did it before cocking. 

 

[seven08]

I would contact PA about your problem now. Your trigger should not have been returned in this condition. Unless outdoorman has some expert advice to try.

I took care of my little problem a few minutes ago. The ratcheting feel was just the spring end grabbing the stem top surface. I disassembled the trigger lever assembly and degreased it. The problem causing the stem backing out was the very sloppy fit of the M3 x.5 threads. My tap fit snug in the lever, but the stem threads were approx. .003-.004 undersize measuring the OD. Sloppy wiggling when assembled. I opted to use a small drop of Gorilla super glue instead of Locktite blue. Set the stem to previous caliper measured height , set fast and hard. Should not ever move again.

 

[bandg]

Safety can function normally with the first stage screw mod outdoorman illustrates so well above but it does require some work. I reshaped the end of the pivoting safety arm and the tab it moves across to work well with dramatically reduced first stage travel a couple of years back but that modification is not reversible without parts replacement so it should be done only if you are willing to do several cycles of a disassembly and assembly process to test it while gradually reshaping the involved parts. Final result is a short first stage with a crisp clean second stage and safety that functions reliably and normally. It was well worth it to me but it did take several hours of disassembly/modification/reassembly to get it just right. I didn't drill and tap for the adjustment screw, I just drilled a hole through with a dremel and used a self tapping screw for the adjustment. If you can drill and tap as outdoorman did it would probably be better but just having a screw there allows the necessary adjustment. Mine has not shifted since installation.